Transcripts produced by Supertranslate.beta
[Louise]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, a coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting with Tony Elliott, who is the head of goalkeeping for the England Para team with a focus on the England Blind Squads. He's also lead goalkeeping coach at Birmingham City Women's Football Club as well as the England Women's Under-16 squad. We'll discover his journey so far and get his insight into coaching goalkeepers. Hi, Tony. Welcome to the show. How are you?
[Tony]
Hello, both. Yeah, and hello to the listeners. Fantastic. Thank you. Had a busy period, obviously a busy season, lots going on. Looking forward to a hectic summer, but at the minute, just having a little bit of a breather and just reflecting on what's been a, you know, a mixed season, shall we say.
[Louise]
Well, we're really grateful that you could join us. And also we've got Tim with us, who's replacing Jamie today. So hi, Tim.
[Tim]
Hi, hi, everyone. I'm honoured, honoured to fill some big boots. So yeah, all good Tony. Thank you for joining us. It's great to have you on before we start Could you just tell the listeners what you do?
[Tony]
Yeah, have you got all day? Yeah, quite busy. Obviously My day job as such is legal keeping coach at Birmingham City women in the in the championship been in that role since 2018 So better for me because I'm a true blue, so I'm a Birmingham City fan and ex-player, so for me to work at the club it's an honour and a privilege. Also worked for the FA since 2007 across many different guises. Currently I'm the head of para goalkeeping where I look after and provide provision of coaches for all the para squads. My main focus for my own work within that group is with the England Blind squads, both male and female. So where I look after the goalkeepers and their developments and also I'm the lead goalkeeper coach with the England Women's Under 16 squad.
[Tim]
Very busy. Yeah, not much then. Yeah. That's fantastic. Thanks for that. Just before we discover more about you and your experiences, as this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on their way to training while tuning in into this. So we always like to give them some great advice early on in the episode.
[Louise]
Yep. So we call this your arrival activity. So what we're going to do is we're going to give you 30 seconds to give us as many top coaching tips as you can. Are you up for that challenge?
[Tony]
You put me on the spot straight away. Yeah of course, not a problem.
Go ahead.
[Louise]
Okay, what we'll do is we'll set the music up and the timer and then when you hear the music you can begin.
[Tony]
Cool. Okay, so first and foremost, be adaptable, be versatile. Prepare for the curveball, because you never know what's going to happen in any given moment, so that would be the first one. Know your audience, so obviously you know depending on the group you're working with, the age, the format you're working in and of course the capability and ability of the players. So make sure you pitch your practices and your theory side of what you're sharing at those levels. Upskill yourself constantly.
[Louise]
Perfect, that was a good end there with the upskill you have perfectly. Is there anything else you wanted to add to that point?
[Tony]
Yeah I got through about three in a list of ten I think, but it's up to you guys we can talk about that later if you want to.
[Louise]
Yeah okay we'll do that.
[Tim]
Cool, so just to start with then, what was your first experience of football like?
[Tony]
Well obviously my upbringing in terms of football, you know I'm 54 now so I've been around the game a long time both as a player and a coach. I've already mentioned previously that I'm a Birmingham City fan so sort of my first experience with football itself was obviously my father taking me down to St Andrews to watch obviously Birmingham City play in an era where I guess probably everybody's hero at Birmingham City in those days was a forward by the name of Trevor Francis and he was my hero. You know, I used to love going down to St Andrews and watching Trevor, but for some reason I didn't end up, you know, going down the striker route. I ended up becoming a goalkeeper. I guess it was because We had season tickets behind the goal at one end, the railway end as it was called then. It's now called the Gil Merrick stand at St Andrew. So I guess because of my exposure to being close to the goalkeepers and behind the goal, that's I guess where the goalkeeping bug started and the rest is history as they say. So that would have been my first experience with the game itself.
[Tim]
So did you give goalkeeping a try straight away then?
[Tony]
No again like I say you know I can remember you know playing on the school field as a six seven eight year old trying to be Trevor Francis wanting to be Trevor Francis and then basically the goalkeeping angle just literally happened by chance. I was quite big for my age, quite tall and well built when I was younger and what happened was we used to live at the back of the school so our house, our back garden backed onto the school and one Saturday morning there was a knock at the door and it was one of the kids from the school team and apparently the goalkeeper that was due to play in the school team that day reported in sick and the sort of nearest footballer I guess and somebody that could actually play the game To the school was myself. Little did I know that when I grabbed my boots and shin pads and everything to run round and help out that I was gonna be thrown in goal. So basically I got thrown in goal, played the game, played really well and unfortunately for the goalkeeper that was ill he never got back in the team and I stayed in and I was a school goalkeeper at my junior school for the next three years. Yeah.
[Tim]
Oh wow. Fantastic. So just on that then, kind of what was your experience like as a goalkeeper first off and in sessions, I guess when you were a kid?
[Tony]
Yeah. I mean, back in those days we, we never really used to have coaches as such, you had a team coach. I was quite fortunate because my father used to run a Sunday team in Birmingham in the Coronation League back in those days. So at the age of 7, 8, 9, 10, I was training with grown men on a Tuesday and a Thursday night at Sheldon Heath School as it was then in the gyms and on the gravel asphalt pitches so there was no plush grass pitches and you know those guys that didn't hold back you know if I went in goal in a five-a-side or whatever it was they treated me as one of the guys you know very quickly I was exposed to you know heavy-duty shot stopping and things like that and obviously player welfare and that wasn't of the highest order back in those days, but it certainly toughened me up. And I think that basically was my training. It was a case of get thrown in, have a go. And then, you know, when I was playing with the younger kids, then it was easy for me because I'd been exposed to playing with the grownups, you know.
[Louise]
I guess that's the thing sometimes when it's like quite a steep learning curve, you kind of pick things, you have to pick things up and then you kind of develop slightly differently.
[Tony]
That's it, you know, I was thrown at the deep end, you know, my dad said there you go, have a go. And I think it was just on the back of being thrown into the school team. My dad saw that as an opportunity for me to sort of get some extra training in. And as I said, you know, because I was well built and, you know, tall and thick set, I was able to sort of take the, you know, the brunt of their best, you know, and very quickly became quite adept at goalkeeping and acquiring a skill set that was needed to be a decent goalkeeper.
[Louise]
And if we were to think about coaching, when did your interest in coaching start and how did you get involved in that?
[Tony]
Yeah very early. I was fortunate enough to be selected as one of the first ever intake at the FA National School which was basically Lilleshall. It was the brainchild of Bobby Robson and Charles Hughes back in the 80s. I went through various trials and so on and was selected as one of the best 25 lads in the country. The other goalkeeper selected with me, God rest his soul, was a dear friend of mine, Alan Miller, passed away a couple of years ago. So we were the two goalkeepers that were at the school. But I had the opportunity to work with, if not the best, one of the best goalkeeper coaches I've ever worked with. And that was Mike Kelly, who was Bobby Robson's senior England men's goalkeeper coach at the time. And very quickly, again, I just got a feel for the detail that he shared with us, the way that he put the, you know, the knowledge across and, you know, engaged us in becoming better at what we were doing. And I think that's probably where, again, the coaching book started for me very early, even though I was still, you know, very, very young in my playing journey myself, you know.
[Louise]
Yeah. And what was your first experience of coaching? Like if you go back and you were thinking it was like you leading, I guess.
[Tony]
Yeah, again, very early, you know, because I was at the national school, you'd often get asked sort of by local junior clubs and things to go and facilitate some practice. So even at the ages of 16, 17, 18, on the odd occasion I'd drop into a youth festival or something like that and put on a little bit of a goalkeeping workshop, you know, for the goalkeepers that were maybe at a tournament and wanted to fill some time. And I was more than happy to sort of set up a, you know, a few markers and, you know, throw myself around in the goal, but also share some of the knowledge that I picked up in my early youth days and again like I say that that was where the bug really hit me and I kind of always knew that you know I wanted to play professionally but I also knew that however long that career lasted that the only direction I wanted to go in post playing was into coaching and fortunately I've had the opportunity to do that over the years.
[Louise]
When did you get to experience coaching goalkeeping in the Para space?
[Tony]
Well again that came about by, I would suggest by chance, but also because I'd had the opportunity to work in the small sided format. My first opportunity to work with the FA was in 2007 when I was invited to become the England foot cell goalkeeper coach, league goalkeeper coach position that I had for around 10 years. So I was very proud to sort of be asked by the FA to take that role. And then obviously because I was working in small-sided format there was, you know, an opportunity then for me to look at working in the para groups. I was offered the opportunity to become the England cerebral palsy goalkeeping coach. So that would have been my first exposure to working with players with a disability and then very quickly after that I think within a year I was then offered the opportunity to become the England blind football coach. So at one time I was working across three different formats all at the same time England Futsal, England cerebral palsy and England blind. So it was a fantastic learning curve for me and a wonderful and diverse combination of roles that are held within the FA at that time.
[Tim]
That's fantastic. I imagine you're very busy at that period of time. So have your playing experiences influenced your coaching at all?
[Tony]
They have, but I think obviously since I was playing the game, you know, I retired through injury early. I retired at the age of 30 back in 2000 after a 13-year career in the game professionally. So I wouldn't suggest that coaching was forced upon me, but obviously I took that path. But the game has evolved, the game has changed since then. So what I've done is I've taken learnings from my exposures to different coaches and I worked with some wonderful coaches as a player, you know, in my time, but also, you know, my journey, my pathway now into what I would consider to be the modern game. Obviously, I've now had the opportunity to learn from coaches that have gone through a different pathway possibly. So for me, it's a real mixture and a diverse mixture across many different formats of the game, many different levels of coaching. And I think that's one thing that I've always been open minded enough to do. It's not fear of doing something different and being immersed and involved in something different to help my learning. And then I can pass that on to the others that I work with.
[Louise]
And what, like across all those kind of diverse experiences that you've had, what would you say that you enjoy most about coaching?
[Tony]
I just love the connection. You know, I always think, you know, it might be something for sort of the listeners to think about, you know, at the end of the day, we are just people. So for me, it's person first, player second, you know, I just love being able to connect with people with so many, you know, different people from all different kinds of walks of life and all different levels of capability. And that's what, you know, working across all the different formats that I have and that I do has given to me the opportunity to share the knowledge and deliver the message with so many different people, both male, female, male, and across all the different formats that I have. So for me, that's what it is. It's about connection and it's about, you know, being able to share that knowledge with as many people as I possibly can. Leave a legacy I guess.
[Tim]
Yeah, yeah. That's fantastic yeah. So could you just give us a brief insight, I guess it's from the time around the 30s when you stopped playing, went into coaching. Give us a bit of an insight into your journey from what it was like when you first started out to where you're at now, I guess.
[Tony]
Yeah, well I think it's an interesting one because obviously when I retired, pensions and those kinds of things weren't that big. I came out of the game with a little bit of money, but I didn't have enough for us to survive in the long term. I think at the time, Tracey and my wife, we were expecting one of our children, so we decided to move back to Carlisle from Scarborough where I was when Scarborough was still in the league. We chose Carlisle over Birmingham purely and simply because Tracey's family were from there and we felt probably more comfortable going to a smaller town than a bigger city. But basically there was no football work, I didn't have any qualifications, so I ended up having to take what I would call a normal job. And I ended up taking a job at Morrison's, stacking shelves, night shift for about nine months I think that was. And in between that time, doing the night shift when I had chance, I was also taking my qualifications. So an idea, you know, maybe, you know, on a, one of the days I would be going in doing a night shift from 10 o'clock in the evening till about half six, seven in the morning, get straight in the car. And I think at the time I was doing me, me outfield C licence down in Barnsley. So we get in the car, seven, half seven, straight down to Barnsley. And then I'd be doing me qualification till about, I don't know, four or five o'clock in the afternoon, hot foot it back up to Carlisle, maybe get a bite to eat, an hour's sleep, straight back onto the night shift. That wasn't every day of course, you know, but I could have been doing that on a weekly basis over a period of time. But very quickly it made me realise that I had to get back into football, I had to get my qualifications and I always wanted to be around football. But it also was very humbling and made me realise, you know, the invaluable part that people in the retail business and like that play. So it was good for me to experience that and feel that. And it also made me value football more and the lucky environments and the pleasurable environments that we have as football coaches working within the game. So that was the start of that situation. But then obviously, you know, I built my own goalkeeping schools up in Cumbria, got recognised because of the way I developed goalkeepers and then I was approached by Liverpool FC to build a development centre or create a development centre down in Preston where I used to go and coach goalkeepers once a week and we developed goalkeepers to a level, hopefully, that we could send them into the academy. And I think the aim in the first couple of years was to see if we could get one goalkeeper good enough from the development centre to go into, you know, Liverpool's academy on a regular basis. I think in the first year we had about three goalkeepers end up going in so you know the success rate was very good so we're really pleased with that and then on the back of that that's where I got offered the England Futsal role you know so without being too long-winded that was the beginning of the journey really and then obviously on the back of that exposure to Futsal other opportunities arose and you know I've been in the game since then.
[Tim]
Fantastic, that's really interesting. Yeah, you can see how one thing led to another.
[Louise]
And I think just seeing that motivation and being open to all the opportunities probably really helped to kind of propel you along.
[Tony]
It did and then again that's you know I'm not afraid to expose myself to new things, to put myself into vulnerable situations. With futsal, I'd never heard of the game, never seen it, never heard of it, never played it. And basically I got invited, you know, by the then England head coach, Graham Dell, to go to Lilleshall to watch a session. And immediately, as soon as I started watching the session, I just fell in love with the game. And I've had a love of the game since. I think it's a fantastic sport in its own right. And, you know, obviously taking that role gave me 10 years of absolute pleasure of being able to again immerse myself in the sport, learn you know a new way of playing the game with the round ball but also to travel the world and support those players. I think in the end I ended up with nearly a hundred, if there is such a thing, nearly a hundred coaching caps with the Futsal Squad. So I'm very proud of that and I was a little bit gutted when I ended up having to leave the role to move on to other things.
[Louise]
I guess it's to just keep on growing and doing more things, yeah. So if we think about everything that you've learned from your experiences so far, what advice would you give to your younger self to prepare them for stepping into the world of coaching for the first time?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think, you know, I already alluded to the fact, you know, be versatile, just be ready for anything because the game can throw that at you. You can have, you know, all best laid plans, you know, but then suddenly in the moment, you know, something can crop up. You know, you might have planned the session for, you know, you might be working in with a group of say 10 goalkeepers and then suddenly three turn up. And your session plan absolutely has to be adapted or changed at the last moment and I think that's one of the most important things that you know I would suggest that I would I would have mentioned to me to my younger self I think in the early days you kind of don't think about those kind of things you want to be diligent you want to plan and everything's got to go to plan and if it doesn't, you know, it doesn't sit and fit right with you. But I think what I've learned over the years is, is just to actually just deal with it in the moment. And sometimes it's not going to be perfect. Sometimes it might be a bit messy, but we've got to be comfortable with that. And that's, you know, that's, that's one thing. I would say the other thing is listen more. I think in my early days I was quite forthright and opinionated and I think over the years I've learned to sort of step back a little bit and listen better and listen more rather than you know wanted to be the one that always has to have the answers and give the information. So I think those probably would be the two biggest things that I would suggest to my younger self.
[Tim]
Really good advice. Yeah, just continuing that trend, I guess. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
[Tony]
Be myself. Don't try and be something that I'm not. You know, listen, we have role models and you know, we have people that we look up to, but at the end of the day, it's me that people want to work with, to be exposed to. So I think for anybody listening out there, just be yourself. You know, you can learn from others, You can take information and try to sort of upskill yourself by listening and watching other people work and so on. But I think be original, be yourself, don't be afraid to be that. And that would probably be the best piece of advice I could give. Be open, be honest, but be yourself.
[Tim]
Yeah, that's great. And carrying that on, I guess, looking at kind of key attributes and skills. So what do you think the key attributes and skills that people need to have in order to be a transformational coach?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think I've already alluded to the fact that, you know, the games evolve in changing at a rapid rate. So I think, you know, one of the biggest things would be to definitely keep up with modern trends, especially where goalkeepers are concerned, you know. I think whenever the rules or laws are changed, there's always probably most seasons going to be something that's going to affect the goalkeeper. You know, back in the day we had the back pass rule, didn't we? You know, and all that changed when you couldn't roll the goalkeeper, the ball back to the goalkeeper anymore. You know, the goalkeeper had to become proficient at playing with their feet, you know, and over the years now we've developed that and evolved that and goalkeepers are multifaceted athlete now rather than just a keeper of the goal. So I think, yeah, you know, keep up with modern trends. We've seen it again, you know, with the way that teams play out from the back now and build from goal kicks in particular, you know, where defenders are now, you know, stepping into the goal area and the goalkeepers are, you know, applying the ball to the defenders and then they're under pressure instantly, you know, from opposing teams that are playing with a high press. So the goalkeepers are having to think quicker, to process information quicker, to then enable them to maintain and keep possession for the team and with the team. So that's the key thing for me is look at modern trends and see how that can help you develop as a coach, but also how you can help your goalkeepers develop in terms of their skill set. I think the other one, you know, for me would be, you know, like I said, just learn from people, get yourself a good mentor and be able to sort of be open to new learning and new findings. That's the key for me, to have good people around you and not be afraid to ask for help and information and knowledge, you know.
[Louise]
As you've got so much experience in goalkeeping, from playing to scouting and coaching in multiple formats, we'd love to get your thoughts across a range of areas. So firstly, looking at goalkeeping in general, it's often the case that when you're coaching the youngest age groups, players might not be confident enough to try goalkeeping out. So how can coaches fairly encourage players to go in goal and what can they do to ensure that they enjoy the experience?
[Tony]
This is the important thing I think far too often we work with the goalkeepers in isolation, so they feel apart from the team. I think it's important that, you know, whenever you're working with the group that you try and integrate the goalkeepers as much as possible into practice. Yeah, of course, they need the isolated work to develop their skill sets and you know work on the fundamentals and the basics but obviously the opportunities we need to give them to learn from the game that's when they're integrated in with the group. So I think as much as we can expose the goalkeepers to those decision-making processes within the team practices. I think that's probably the best way. I think also making it fun and enjoyable, not being too rigid and too robotic with practice or having too much of an expectation, especially on those younger goalkeepers. They're going to make mistakes, they're going to mess up and we've got to allow them to do that, to obviously learn to the best of their capability. So I think a little bit of fun, integrating them in with the team and I think you'll get the most out of the practices and the most out of them then.
[Louise]
I know you said your first experience of kind of going in goal, you weren't expecting it. Can you imagine like if you had just been playing normally, would you have wanted to go in goal yourself then?
[Tony]
I think like I said, for me it just happened naturally. I don't think as coaches we're in a position to actually force people to want to go into a certain position. I think we allow them the opportunity, see if they're open to that. But if we force them into that situation, then that's where I think that you start to get some difficulty in them actually wanting to do it, if that makes sense. So I think you suggest it, you offer the opportunity. I think the other thing is maybe, you know, when we do coaching sessions, especially in, you know, in grassroots clubs and so on, is, you know, you'll do your normal coaching sessions, but it might be worth having all the players actually do a, like a specific goalkeeping session where all the players, they don't necessarily have to wear gloves or anything, but all the players are exposed to practices that will help them develop some form of goalkeeping skill set. So I think if everybody's exposed to that, everybody's going to get a feel for it. And you never know, you might find a rough diamond within that group that you ordinarily wouldn't have known you had. So, you know, that might be a little suggestion for coaches is, you know, every now and again, do a, you know, a generic goalkeeping session across your whole group, even if it's just for a warm-up for 15-20 minutes doing some kind of handling or ball work with the feet that you know is incorporated in the role of the goalkeeper and maybe you'll encourage more to one to actually then put the gloves on and go and play as the goalkeeper.
[Tim]
Exactly, it gives them the opportunity at the very least, doesn't it? So what skills can players get from playing in goal that they might be able to utilise out in other positions?
[Tony]
Yeah of course, well I've already alluded to the fact you know that goalkeepers you know now use their feet a lot more than they ever have you know I think the stats tell us that you know in the game in the modern game that goalkeepers tend to use the feet around 65 70% compared to the rest being with the hands so I think for players they will get exposure to to working with their feet you know so obviously they're gonna be able to work on their control on their first touch on their range of passing because that's what goalkeepers have to have. The other thing is now of course, we're now seeing with the way that the laws are changing around defending in the box and so on, you're seeing so many players now defending by dropping into this sort of block shape position with their arms behind their back and so on. Well, you know, if you look at goalkeeping now and we talk about goalkeeping in 1v1 situations, they've used the block shape, what we call the block shape, for a good number of years now. And so obviously, you know, that's the way that defenders are tended to defend now. So you could link that with some form of blocking work that you do with your goalkeepers because they look very similar in terms of the final action when the players are using them in and around the box.
[Tim]
Yeah it seems like a very close link between goalkeeping and defending I guess, you know, looking at observing and certain shapes, so yeah it's really interesting. Would you recommend rotating players at a young age? In goal I mean.
[Tony]
Yeah, of course, like I alluded to earlier, you know, in terms of doing generic sessions and so on. I think, you know, I think we've done this for a number of years now anyway, you know, in grassroots football where we kind of have a rotational situation where we try and get most players to have a going goal. Yeah of course I have no issue with that and again like I said you can't force people to do that so you can offer the opportunity if a player doesn't want to do that then we can't make them but we suggest that they have a go because it might be something that they enjoy and within doing that again like I've said before you might actually fall upon a rough diamond that actually is a good goalkeeper but also might want to do it. So unless we give them the opportunity how do we know? So you know that would be my suggestion is yeah keep doing it, keep rotating, look for the rough diamond.
[Tim]
Yeah. And what age do you think it'd be fair to say someone could specialise or start specialising in goalkeeping then?
[Tony]
Yeah, it's quite difficult to put an exact age on it, you know, some would say that you need to be around 13, 14, 15, but you know, we know history has shown us that, you know, you can find a goalkeeper in the late teens, early twenties. So, but you know, like me, you know, I was what, seven or eight when it actually became something that I wanted to do. So I think it works across all age bands and age levels. For me I wouldn't want to pigeonhole or suggest that you have to be a certain age to become a goalkeeper. I think that just comes with steady progression in development and again eventually you know those that want to do it and want to develop and see them themselves maybe forging not necessarily a career but a way of playing regular football as the goalkeeper then we allow that to happen naturally again it's not something I think can be forced or dictated It will just happen naturally for me.
[Tim]
It sounds like it's that you're picking those that are really passionate and really like love that role as opposed to it being a specific age I guess or a skill set.
[Tony]
Yeah I would have thought so, you know and again as coaches that's down to us then to recognise and see, you know, those that have the natural skills and abilities, and then for us to hone those skills. And then if we're not capable as coaches ourselves, or we don't have enough knowledge or understanding of the role to help them develop further, that's when we might source further expertise and a higher level of expertise externally.
[Louise]
Sometimes it's a usual sight to see goalkeepers whisked off to a corner of a training pitch to have their own sessions away from the rest of the team and that's their only experience but as coaches we can do better than that can't we? So do you have any tips to ensure that sessions include goalkeepers and they don't feel separate from the team?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think I already suggested that, you know, about, you know, try not to work with the goalkeepers for too long in isolation. Again, we look at the game now, the way the goalkeepers integrated into the way teams build and play out from the back, you know, and obviously they're working, you know, at close quarters with a number of teammates depending on the numbers in the team. But there's an expectation on the goalkeeper to be good with the feet, to be able to play with the feet and to be able to deal with pressure. So for me, you know, again, like I said before, integrating the goalkeeper into practice with the team, i.e. Possession type practices, rondos, you know, that type of situation where the goalkeeper will be exposed to pressure, will be exposed to maybe playing off a certain number of touches, being able to sort of work and communicate with teammates at close proximity. They're not going to get that if they're constantly and consistently working in isolation with the goalkeeper coach or just in a small pool of goalkeepers. So again, like I said, just as much as we can integrate them into practice, give them opportunity to work with their teammates, to build those bonds, build those links. And obviously, you know, those skills within the game will develop, you know, forthwith.
[Tim]
Just touching upon those skills, you obviously mentioned playing, it'd be good playing with your feet. What are the skills that you'd want to develop then, other skills I guess, to make a good and skilful goalkeeper and how perhaps would you go about enhancing those skills?
[Tony]
Yeah well I think it comes down to sort of the aspects of the game that the goalkeeper's involved in, you know, we talk about the in possession side of the game, which we've already alluded to there, you know, in terms of their control, their touch, you know, their range of passing, ball mastery, I'll call it, you know, so looking after the ball, being able to move the ball over certain distances. And I think the other thing with that side of it is trying to help your goalkeeper not just be dependent on one dominant foot, it's to help them develop and get better at playing with both feet. Because that is such an asset for the team if your goalkeeper can play off both feet. The best goalkeepers in the world can do that and you can see how much of a threat they are to the opposition when they're in possession of the ball because the opposition don't really know which side to close the goalkeeper down on because they can play off both feet. I think the other thing is you know you look at the out-of-possession side of the game you know you've got general handling you've got shot stopping you know dealing with the balls that are now ever-changing and becoming lighter and moving in the air and so on. So there's a range of handling skills, diving skills that the goalkeepers need to have, you know, in terms of securing the ball, moving the ball away from goal. Then of course, we've talked about it before, 1v1 situations, you know, when I played it was either diving at feet or smothering, but now we've got blocking, high block, low block, we've got spreading, we've got, you know, the starfish shape, we've got all kinds of different ways of dealing with 1v1 situations and shot stopping. And then of course, you know, we've got dealing with high wide and balls from deep, you know, so there's many, many different aspects of the game now that we can work on with the goalkeeper to help them develop their skill set both in possession and out of possession within the game and of course I've only mentioned a few there, there are many many others as well.
[Tim]
Yeah, okay. Are there any key differences to coaching goalkeepers versus outfield players?
[Tony]
I think it's, of course, you know, this is about player profiling, you know, so if you've got players in specific positions then obviously for their position on the pitch, they'll have a specific set of skills, but of course the way that teams play now with rotations and moving players into different areas of the pitch, like I said again, you know, the players now have to be multifunctional, multifaceted. You know, we can't just pitch in the hole, for instance, a right back or a wing back as that position. They might end up in the centre forward position at times because of the way teams rotate and move the players around. So I think my exposure to futsal helped me with that massively. For all the players generally in a futsal team have to be able to play on all areas of the court. They have to have some kind of skill both defensively and offensively to be able to complement the team and the way they play. So I'm not suggesting that you know you're gonna constantly throw a centre back into you know shooting practices because they're not really gonna find themselves up that part of the field so often but it could be a situation where they're involved in set plays attacking wise and on a second phase situation they might end up having to finish or shoot so why not include them every now and again in the finishing practices so that's just food for thought for those listening.
[Tim]
Yeah exactly.
[Louise]
And bringing it back to futsal you just mentioned there in a little bit earlier you were a big part of a discussion about how futsal can help improve goalkeepers Can you tell us a little bit about that?
[Tony]
Yeah, of course, for many, many years now I've been spoken to and asked by the football fraternity of how the skill set of a Futsal goalkeeper might be able to complement those that play mainstream football. And of course, it's understanding how you can shift those skill sets across and it's when where and how to use them. There are those that will say yes you can, there'll be those that say you can't. I'm not forcing people to say yes you can or can't, it's subjective but for me obviously when you look at the Futsal goalkeeper, very dynamic, very athletic, very speedy in and around the goal. Have to be very good both with the feet and with the hand when they're distributing the ball. So again, ball manipulation, ball mastery, you know, has to be of the highest order. And of course, you know, defending the goal, defending the area, defending the space, they've got to be very adept at different types of save, very reactive, very athletic, very agile, have to have high flexibility because of the types of saves they make. They make a lot of saves with their feet in terms of what we call the split save or the forward kick through save. So, you know, there's a wide range from my point of view in terms of foot sell and the skill set a foot sell goalkeeper has that you can actually transfer into a football goalkeeper. And I have done it, you know, obviously working across the different formats. That's the beauty of my work. Having worked in the small sided format, I have been able to take certain pieces of that and bring it into mainstream football and whenever I've done that I've found that the football goalkeepers I work with absolutely love it because it's different. It adds, you know, another tool in the bag for them, you know, in terms of the options they have when it comes to, you know, the actions that they make and create in a game. So I've only ever had positive feedback whenever I've done that. And I've had some, I won't name names, but I've had some goalkeeper coaches from some of the top clubs and international teams globally contact me about maybe things like blocking. We know the action and we understand what it looks like, but we don't get the processes. So what I've done with those individuals is I've helped them design practice, come up with the processes that gets the goalkeeper into better positions and then able to process information and then make decisions to get into those positions based on what's happening around them. So it's been very, I've been very proud to support and help those people that have contacted me in the past.
[Tim]
That's really interesting, fantastic, yeah. And also you've got a lot of experience working in para football. So could you just talk us through your experiences and what goalkeeping coaching is like in the different formats that you've been involved in?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think of course in each of the formats there are differences in terms of maybe the size of the pitch, size of the goal that you're playing on, obviously, you know, the range of impairments that you work across will vary the way the game is played. But obviously, you know, from my point of view, goalkeeping is goalkeeping. So I try not to differentiate too much. There will be certain aspects, certain areas where you just have to have a little bit of variety and variability, but ultimately I tend to try and work across the five elements. So technical, tactical, physical, psychological, social, in terms of developing the goalkeepers holistically. But what I do do is I immerse myself in the individual format, for instance, blind football or futsal, look at the role of the goalkeeper within the game and the design practice that befits that role, but also not afraid to complement those practices and that knowledge with aspects from the different formats just to see if that helps the goalkeeper within you know that other format. So again I think the diversity of my work has allowed me to mix and match and dovetail the different skill sets of all of those goalkeepers and create more of a multifunctional, multifaceted individual across all the formats.
[Louise]
And I guess that's the benefit of kind of working across multiple formats like the knowledge that you get and kind of how to adapt things.
[Tony]
Yeah it does and as I say you know then it's a question of not only us as coaches but to give an understanding to the goalkeepers of when, where and how to use those certain skills. You know it won't be you know that they can use it all the time in a certain given situation. I think for me as long as the goalkeepers effective and efficient in any moment, it's not always going to be textbook, it's not always going to be pretty, but as long as it's effective and efficient, whether it be in possession or out of possession, that's what I get after. You know, they're not robots, you know, they've got a role to fulfil and as I said, as long as it's effective and efficient that's all that matters.
[Louise]
Thinking practically are there different rules to adhere to in the different formats?
[Tony]
Yeah of course you know obviously you know mainstream football you know the rules and regs you know within the game but I think when you then break into futsal so for instance in futsal you know you've got the four second rule So when the goalkeeper is in possession of the ball They've got four seconds to release the ball And if they don't release it within the four seconds, then they're penalized and the opposition are given a free kick So, you know when the goalkeeper gets possession with it whether with the feet or with the hands they've already got to have an idea in their head of what they're going to do with the ball. So they, you know, I talk about the before, during and after, you know, what are they doing before they're involved? What are they doing during when they've got the ball or involved in an action in terms of out of possession, side making or, you know, another aspect to the game. And then the after part, so when they're not involved now, the game's moved on, but how do they support the play but with the futsal goalkeeper here you know for me there's a lot of thinking around before so they can't ever not be in the game they can't be spectating they've always got to be participating because in any given moment because of the close proximities of the game and the tightness of the areas we play on, the goalkeeper can always be involved in any given moment so they have to be doing a lot of work in the before, processing information, where's the opposition, where's my teammates, what stage of the game are we at, you know, what distances, angles have I got to move the ball, for instance, in possession when I receive it. So they have to be doing a lot of pre-thinking, be very proactive, not reactive, in readiness to be involved in the game. It's a similar type thing with blind football, there's a four-second rule in there. Now of course with blind football the players are blind but the goalkeepers are fully sighted so to restrict the goalkeepers influence I guess on the game we play with a futsal hockey type size goal but there's a small rectangle in front of the goal, 5 by 2 metres. The goalkeeper is not allowed at any time to move out of. If they move out of that area to touch the ball or influence the ball, then they'll be penalised with a 6 metre penalty. So there's a lot of restriction on the goalkeeper in terms of the spaces and the areas they can work in and move in and that changes the way you work in terms of your session design and your practices. So those are just a couple of the rules that can sort of really challenge the goalkeepers and challenge the coaches who are working with them in way of way of thinking to make sure that practice is relative to the game.
[Tim]
Yeah that's really interesting so are there different like techniques to coach then for the different formats?
[Tony]
Yeah of course like I said goalkeeping is goalkeeping so you'll have kind of a you know a template that you'll work from and we don't ever forget our default you know from our early learnings most goalkeepers will come through mainstream football but again what you do you know and I do let's say for instance we bring a goalkeeper from mainstream football into Futsal or into blind football which we've done over the years because obviously futsal wasn't something that was part of our curriculum it was new so a lot of our players in the early days of futsal here in this country hadn't been exposed to the game so we were having to bring football goalkeepers into futsal so immediately we had to immerse them in the game so again going upskill yourself going research going to have a look at the game, be exposed to the game and then working with them in collaboration to design practice and get practice to be as relevant and realistic to the game as we possibly can. And that's the way we've worked ever since.
[Tim]
Yeah, that's really interesting. And then looking again at the formats and I guess the interactions between the players, how do the team communicate with the goalkeeper where there might be like a visual or hearing impediment?
[Tony]
Yeah, interesting. Obviously, really, really challenging for the deaf players, because when you think about the goalkeeper, the goalkeepers generally behind the play, behind the team. And the goalkeeper works in that kind of 180 degree world, everything's predominantly in front of them. So if you can imagine you've got a line of defenders in front of you, there's a ball coming over the top, and obviously the players are deaf, they're not allowed to wear the hearing aids when they play so the goalkeeper can probably shout as loud as they want but the teammates in front of them aren't going to hear so there's very much a situation where players constantly in front of the goalkeeper have to check and scan look behind them look around them to just have awareness of where the goalkeeper is obviously they do that in the right moments. So they're not going to be doing it, you know, if somebody's about to shoot or if they're going to make a tackle. But if there's a moment in the game where they can just have a little pause and look behind them or just check the shoulder just to see where the goalkeeper is. So that would be, you know, something that the deaf players have to do. Blind players of course it's a total flip so with deaf players it's very visual, with the blind players it's very audio so you've got to speak and you imagine the goalkeeper literally sort of conducts the way the players move, play. The blind goalkeeper has to process information so fast. So if you think about it, they have to absorb the information, process it, think about what they need to say, and then get it out to the player. So, you know, never underestimate the role that the goalkeeper in blind football plays in terms of the speed of thought that they have to have and Then the way in which they will then project their voice not to create chaos, but to create calmness But also to create actions from their teammates, you know, of course the players will was owning on the ball They'll listen to the ball You know the ball in blind football has metal panels, metal discs ingrained into some of the panels and in those discs are silicon beads. So when the ball rolls or bounces, it rattles. So the players, you know, hear that sound and they will be drawn to that sound. But then of course the goalkeeper is one of the guides as they're known. They will then help the players move to the ball and move with the ball. And obviously then if they've not got the ball to try and stop the opposition from scoring. But again, for me, it's the speed at which they process the information and then are able to you know form a decision based on that information and then punch it out. It happens like instantaneously. It's amazing to watch and if anybody out there has the opportunity to go and have a look at blind football or to be exposed to it or you know if anybody wants to come and spend a day with me with the blind team and just to see how the goalkeepers work I'm more than happy for them to sort of reach out and spend some time with us.
[Tim]
That sounds really interesting. I guess the goalkeepers in that sense have to be really clear, concise, quick with the communication So I'm sure not just other goalkeepers in other fields could learn a lot, I think we all could perhaps in terms of how good they are.
[Tony]
Definitely. I think it's more about the time or the lack of time. You know, in mainstream football you do have time because the pitch is bigger, the spaces is bigger, the people around you, they have vision so they can see, they can make their own decisions a lot of the time. So with mainstream football it's just about staying connected and giving bits of detail and information to those around you. But I think with blind football the goalkeeper plays such a huge part you know and their understanding of whether you know it's information just to let the players know what's going on or it's an instruction because they need an action created or they need the player to act in that moment you know it's an understanding of the differences between the two but it's then the how, the communication part, it's the how, so you know, do I raise the voice, do I lower the tone, do I do it calmly or do I do it you know incisively because it's an emergency. So there's lots of different ways you know in which the goalkeeper has to learn to use their voice, but also the vocabulary that we use. There's certain terms that we use in blind football that the goalkeepers have to know, but the players also have to understand and learn why they're using it and what it's for. So, you know, the connection between the goalkeeper and the players in blind football is massive, it's huge.
[Tim]
So that's kind of come on to the next question I was going to ask. So how can coaches help goalkeepers improve their communication skills in para football then? So you've touched upon it a little bit there in terms of the phrases used, when to use them. Is there anything else?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think not just para football, but I think in football per se, I think, and futsal, communication is quite a fluffy word, you know, but there's so much depth to it. And I think what we can't do, especially with younger players, is overload them. Some people, they're just not natural talkers. I was, I was very, very confident in my ability to use my voice and I wasn't afraid of the sound of my own voice, you can probably tell that now, but I did, I had a, it's just something about being able to express myself. I understood the game so I wanted to help people and I guess that stuck with me on my journey. But I think what we need to do is keep it simple. So with a young goalkeeper for instance, if they're just new to goal keeping, you've got to remember, you know, they're first and foremost they're thinking about, I don't want to let goal pass me so they're massively worried about that then they might have to think about well what I would do if the ball comes back to me what where do I go what so they're thinking about in very simple terms the tactical side of the game the last thing on their mind is going to be communication. So what we have to do is to encourage that, is we have to give them, start to give them an understanding of maybe what you're words to use, because that could be the issue, they might not quite understand what words or terms they need to use, but also keep it simple. So what you might do, for instance, it might be that the opposition get a corner and you might just get them to simply work with one player. So it might be a player that they put on the post. So they just talk to that player to get that player on the post and in position ready for the corner. Then you might start to build it up. So you might now start to get them working with the player on the post and maybe a player that they want to mark, you know, in the area. So they then start to work with two players and gradually, slowly but surely, you build it up. So you start with one, get comfortable with that, talk to that player and so on. Then you go into the, you go to two and you start to build the confidence, helping with the terminology, helping with the words, helping directing players into certain spaces and certain areas, but you gradually build it and build it. Then you get to the extremes. The other side, you look at a blind football goalkeeper who literally at any given moment can be communicating with four players all at the same time, literally, you know, one, then the next one, then the next one, the next one, and it's happening so fast. And that's why I say, you know, to be exposed to that, that form of communication, the speed at which that happens, it's frightening to watch. It's awesome.
[Louise]
And talking about all of those skills and stuff that para teams and para goalkeepers have, it'd be really interesting to find out about the pathways for players to kind of go down the routes of developing further. Where do people go to find out about Para pathways for a player?
[Tony]
Yeah, of course, obviously you contact your local county FA. So all county FAs will have a disability development coach, or they should have. Hopefully if they haven't, they will have. So, you know, they'll be directed towards, you know, those individuals. And if not, then you can just contact the county FA and they'll give you advice. Of course, you can go on the FA website and there'll be details around who to contact in terms of learning more about the disability formats and then obviously opportunities for players to either be coached or to have trials and so on and so forth. So you know that would be probably the best way to do it to reach out you know so go through your local county FA or just go through the FA website direct.
[Tim]
And just on that, are there any success stories of players coming through the pathways that you could share?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think probably the biggest success story in terms of going all the way through and then going into coaching is an individual called Jack Rutter. So Jack was a player at Birmingham City. Unfortunately, he had an incident in his younger days that he had a brain injury. So then obviously, you know, through a process of elimination, Jack was able then to play cerebral palsy football. So Jack then played for the England Cerebral Palsy team and went to the Paralympics in Rio in 2016. Fantastic event and a brilliant opportunity for him. And then more recently Jack has obviously stopped playing now and he's now moved on to coaching and he's one of the coaches around the England cerebral palsy squad. So what a fantastic situation that is for Jack, not only representing his country as a player through adversity, but also now he's representing his country as a coach and you know, Jack's got a fantastic and bright future. And I'm so glad that he is an individual, you know, may have thought back in the days when the situation happened that it was all over him, but clearly it's not. So, you know, that's a message to anybody out there through adversity, if you really dig deep and you really want to do something, then nothing's impossible. And Jack Rutter is a prime example of that. So believe and, you know, just show willing and work hard and you never know what's around the corner for you.
[Louise]
Yeah. And I think make use of those pathways because it's kind of Like you say, you never know where it can take you. Do you feel like working in the Para football pathway has developed you as a coach?
[Tony]
Oh, massively, massively. And I just am so grateful for the opportunities that I've been given by people in the past, the opportunities to work across the different formats. Yes, it is luck, but I also think it's down to diligence and hard work, but also what I've said before, whenever I've been thrown the opportunity, I've never turned my back on it. I've never feared looking at another format of the game, which is futsal, no, I don't know what it is, I'm not going to do that, or you know it's blind football, I know nothing about it, no. Now what I did was, was that I stepped forward and I thought right I'll give myself you know the best opportunity to go and have a look at that. Now maybe over the years it's probably been my biggest downfall because people have probably pigeonholed me as the futsal guy or the disability guy or, and that's not fair because I think, you know, for me, what I see is in myself and I look at him as a very diverse, adaptable, versatile coach that has been able to work across, I think it's now eight or nine different formats of the game, all of them internationally. And I'm very proud of that. And it's not said with ego, it's just to show those out there that, you know, I'd never want anybody to be afraid of trying something different, putting themselves into maybe what they would consider to be a vulnerable situation or out of their comfort zone, go for it. Because you never know, like me, you know, my first exposure was futsal and here we are, eight or nine formats later, if I hadn't have stepped, you know, forward and taken that futsal role, none of this would have ever happened. But I think that decision to be brave in the moment, have a go, immerse myself in the sport, it's opened up so many different opportunities for me now over the last 20 years.
[Tim]
Really encouraging words and yeah, very inspiring. And I mean, I was just going to ask, like, you know, would you encourage more people to go into disability coaching, I guess? And if so, why? But, you know, I think you've pretty much touched upon that anyway.
[Tony]
Most definitely. And I think the game is growing, the formats are growing, we're developing more opportunities for players, you know, with an impairment to play, you know, we're having trials for many of our disability teams, coaching pathways growing and getting better. So, you know, I think the more people that we can get involved, the more people we can immerse into the different formats and just expose them to the formats and then you know get those people out there in the wider community to spread the word and that's why before I openly said you know I've no no worry about people contacting me to want to come and spend some time because we're very open with that we want people to to know about us we want people to understand and learn about disability football and working with players with an impairment. Unless we open the door, how are we going to do that? From my point of view, that's what this is about, you know, this is about leaving a legacy for those after us to sort of grab the baton and take it on and move it on to greater and higher levels.
[Tim]
Yeah, credit to you, it's really inspiring. And so just touching upon those coaches that might be thinking about it then, what skills and attributes would they need to go and coach in the disability space, I guess?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think a lot of them I've mentioned, you know, being adaptable, versatile, but I think, you know, being open-minded, being willing to learn and to engage with lots of different people, getting to understand the specifics around the different impairments, just being willing, as I said, to be uncomfortable for a period because you won't know about the different formats and, you know, working with players with a disability. But unless you expose yourself to those opportunities, how are you ever going to know? Like I said before, just be open, be willing to learn new things and just try because you'll fall in love with it, I promise you. And that's what happened to me. You know, every time I've gone into a different format of the game, I've gone in, you know, with an open mind and I've never looked back because I've just loved every moment of working with every group that I've ever worked with.
[Louise]
Brilliant. So finally, to kind of wrap all this up, if we look back at everything that you've discussed and you've spoken about, can you summarise the key top tips that you would want coaches to take away from this episode?
[Tony]
Probably the most important, like I said, is person first, player second. You know, it's about connection. It's about working with people because at the end of the day, that's all we are. It doesn't matter who you are. We are simply but people. And I think if we can build a connection, build good, positive working relationships with those around us, we'll get the best out of them. Like I said, I think, you know, just be prepared to deal with the curveball because the game, being what it is, can throw so many different things at us. Being able to adapt in the situation in any given moment quickly, but effectively, I think, you know, that's the art of coaching, is not being too rigid and structured, but being able to bounce off something that may be a little bit adverse and different and managing the moment that may prove to be difficult for others. And I think keep learning, keep looking at what's new, what's modern, who the best people are to learn from, to be with. And on the back of that, you know, for me, the best thing I ever did was get myself a mentor. It was someone that maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be a person from football. It might be in football, they might not have the qualification you've got. It's just someone that you can bounce ideas off, that you can talk to openly and honestly, that you can spend time with and just reflect and things like that. So, you know, get yourself a good mentor because for me it was invaluable. I won't name the individual but he'll know who he is when he's listening to this and I owe him a lot. So, you know, for me, life changed when I met this certain individual and I've never looked back.
[Louise]
And would you, I mean, we often kind of ask our guests to kind of set a challenge to the listeners to kind of push them forward based on what they've listened to. Do you have a challenge that you'd like to set listeners?
[Tony]
Yeah, I think probably a nice challenge. For me the game's about moments, so whatever format you're working in, the goalkeeper's going to be involved in moments across the game. You know, in mainstream football, you know, if I watch a game and I analyse the game and I put a set of clips together that a goalkeeper I'm working with is involved in, in a game, it can be anywhere from 40 to 60 moments where the goalkeeper's in and around or involved. So I work on moments, now whether that be to develop a skill so that might be something that the goalkeeper doesn't have or doesn't use enough of so we develop. Might be to enhance a skill that they have so in other words they it's a skill that they do have or they use regularly, but we just want to keep topping that up. Or it could be a situation where we're preparing the goalkeeper for what's to come. So we won't be facing an opponent. So we look at footage, we analyse, we get the goalkeeper ready for that. So we're preparing. So you've got developing, enhancing, preparing. But the game's about moments. So my challenge would be, choose a moment, you know, that might be from video footage that you've got of a game where you're involved with your goalkeeper. It could be you've watched the game on Match of the Day or another platform and you've seen the situation where the goalkeeper's involved. But from that moment, and this is something that I challenge myself on very, very often, is to look at a moment and from that moment, can I collaborate with the goalkeepers that I work with and design and build a practice, a progressive practice that would help the goalkeeper develop that moment to become better at it? Does that make sense? So select a moment and those moments can last anywhere from two to ten seconds, yeah? But choose a moment, have a look at what that moment is in possession, out of possession, collaborate with your goalkeepers and try and come up with a practice, a session, 40 minutes, an hour, that's progressive, that will help your goalkeeper develop in that aspect of the game.
[Louise]
Brilliant and I think what we'll do is we'll put that as a bit of a discussion on the community and we'd love to hear how that's gone, what people have tried, what they learned from it.
[Tim]
Tony it's been great having you on Coachcast, thanks for sharing your story, your coaching advice, your experiences. I've been fascinated by it and I'm sure our listeners will be as well. I hope you enjoyed it.
[Tony]
Yeah, it's been fantastic. Obviously, this is something I'm very passionate about, very proud to have worked for the FA since 2007 across all the different formats, but it's just lovely for me to be able to share that knowledge and those experiences that I've had over the years with the listeners and those that want to sort of learn and take information on. So it's been brilliant. Loved every moment. Thank you.
[Louise]
Thank you.
[Tim]
Right, that's all we have time for today, but don't forget to check out the episode description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you will be able to click through to the England Football Community. This is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just connect with loads of wonderful coaches.
[Louise]
Yep, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions, so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don’t miss an episode – from all of us at England Football Learning, Thanks for listening.