Transcripts produced by Supertranslate.beta

[Jamie]

Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to Mark Lee, an FA coach development officer, to discover his journey so far and to get his view on how coaches can improve their sessions by utilising volume and variety effectively. Hi Mark, Welcome to the show. How are you?

[Mark]

Thanks, Jamie. Thanks, Louise. Yeah, really well. Really looking forward to today's episode and just chatting about football, really.

[Louise]

Brilliant. Well, it's really good to have you on. What we tend to do when we start is just try and find out a little bit about your role and kind of explain to everybody what it is that you do.

[Mark]

Yeah, so I've been a coach developer with the FA for the past 10 years in a variety of roles. For the past three years, I'm a Women's and Girls Coach Development Officer for London and the South East region. So in addition to our core coaching offer to the grassroots game, the FA are committed to engaging with a more diverse coaching workforce by dedicated support for traditionally underrepresented groups such as women and black and Asian coaches. So I'm tasked along with a number of colleagues with supporting more women to get into coaching and then helping them to progress and sustain their journey.

[Jamie]

Brilliant, fantastic. Thank you very much for that, Mark. Just before we kind of discover more about you and your experiences then, as this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on the way to training while they're tuning into this. And so we always like to give them some good advice at the top of the show.

[Louise]

Yep, so we call this your arrival activity. It's a chance for a little bit of a warmup and get you excited for the episode. So what we'll do is we'll give you 30 seconds and we're gonna ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can.

[Louise]

Are you up for the challenge?

[Mark]

Definitely.

[Louise]

Okay, great. Well, I'm gonna set some music up and then when the music starts, you can begin.

[Mark]

So in terms of players, be positive and enthusiastic, make it enjoyable. Remember, it's just a game, so make it fun. Be true to your values. For me, that's work hard, help each other, respect others. So work hard to build relationships with players, parents and other coaches. Practice design, play lots of games, keep it simple, make it look like football. Think about how you manage the progressions to increase time on task. In other words, Talk more, sorry, talk less, play more.

[Jamie]

Oh, look at that. Fantastic. Brilliant. Well done with that. Yeah. So now thank you for all those top tips, loads in there. We kind of now we'll focus and dive straight into the topic, which is, is kind of looking at your journey first if that's right Mark and we always start this section by asking. What was your first experience of football like?

[Mark]

Okay so for me I'm getting on a bit in years now Jamie so I'm not a spring chicken anymore. So it was really playing in the playground at school with my mates and then with my older brother and others in the park. I didn't play any form of organised football or receive any structured coaching until I was 11 years old. So looking back on that, it was probably a really nice introduction to the game via informal learning and just having no pressure on you to perform. So you can, you can just be with your mates and just try stuff out. So that was really good. Yeah. And then started playing for school, started playing for a club, was fortunate enough to then go and train with the pro club during school holidays, evenings, weekends, that kind of thing. But what was really nice about that was you still played with your mates at the weekend so you got that challenge from the pro club environment but also that from a social and psychological point of view just being with your mates took the pressure off a little bit. I suppose the only thing that's probably much better now is physical overload during adolescent years. So you're playing representative football for the school, playing for a club, playing for the professional club as well. I think from a physical development point of view, that's something that's probably much better now. But overall, I really enjoyed the fact that it was an informal experience. I went to a village school, so played all sports. Wasn't good at all sports, but played all of them. And so, yeah, really nice to get a broad and balanced experience growing up.

[Louise]

Yeah, I think it's really nice to kind of just be open to sport and just to try lots of things. So, yeah, that sounds like a really good start. So after playing, when did your interest in coaching start and how did you get involved in that?

[Mark]

Okay, so I really didn't want to be a coach at all. So I was 16, 17 years of age playing as a white team professional at my local pro club. And my younger brother aged 11, his coach quit, and my parents and others encouraged me to go and coach the team which I was not looking forward to doing having said that once I was there I really loved the buzz of just spinning around working with players helping them enjoy it helping them get better and that was a you know that that's really what hooked me into coaching in the first place. And it's continued from there.

[Louise]

It sounded like you didn't particularly want to get involved, but then it changed your mind while you're in it. So it must have been a positive experience. What was it like? Did you feel nervous or did it kind of just took over?

[Mark]

On the plus side, because I had a bit of knowledge of the game and I'm just energetic, enthusiastic in my approach, which can often be a good thing for coaches. Sometimes that can be overplayed, clearly. But, you know, working with young players, just being approachable, kind, friendly, I think really helped to build decent relationships with the players and the parents. And I think because I had some knowledge of the game and some ideas and some practices from playing the game, I think the players and the parents really responded to that. Looking back now over the years, so knowing now a bit more about player development and how young people develop and what's appropriate diet for them at particular ages, I tended, like most people, you go with what you know. So on a Friday morning, we'd have a training session in a pro club environment for adults. I would copy the same practices and present them in the same manner as what we received in the morning. So thinking about that now, that probably wasn't appropriate, you know, knowing what I know now for 11, 12 year olds, but it seemed to be well received for its time, I think. And then obviously you learn and reflect and you gain knowledge as you go through your coaching journey.

[Jamie]

Brilliant. Well, there's probably quite a lot of people, maybe even that's listening to this, that's been in a bit of a similar position, say parents who don't necessarily want to kind of take over as coaching and maybe they might not have the knowledge of football and that's might be why that they're being held back a little bit that they don't feel like they know how to be a coach because they're not too sure. What advice do you potentially have for someone who was in the same situation as you that maybe didn't really want to take up coaching but has been found themselves in that situation? But also what advice do you have for anyone who's listening who thinks I don't maybe know enough about football. Is there a place for them still?

[Mark]

Without a doubt and I think that's, you know, the vast majority of football coaches in this country are volunteers and a lot of those are parents that maybe didn't have a background in sport or football themselves. Some, you know, many do which is great. So I think for me the first thing to emphasise is you're doing a great job volunteering to put something back into your local community and if you weren't there there might be no football for the kids and we all know that that's you know the great benefits that football and sport has you know in terms of a lifetime's involvement in it for all the benefits that that entails. So I think for me first and foremost, coaching is about people and working with people. So I'd focus on building positive relationships with your players by showing an interest in them as people first and players second. So try and get to learn a little bit about them and try and think about why do they come to training? Do they want to be the best player? Do they want to be professional? Most of them it's not that. It's about fun, friendship, fitness with their mates. It might be something they're good at. So really, if you understand why they're there and what their motivations are, you can tailor your approach accordingly. I think that really benefits. I would then extend that kind of relationship building to parents and co-coaches. And that's really important so that players receive consistent messages. So it's a safe environment, both physically, obviously, but socially, psychologically, it's a safe environment. Players know what's expected, and they're getting that clarity and consistency of message from you, other coaches, other adults that are working with them and their parents when they go home. I think from a technical point of view, play lots of games and think about if you are going to design some practices, design practices that replicate elements of the game. So football is an invasion game which is all about scoring and stopping goals. So make sure there's elements of that in. There's a way of scoring, there's targets, there's goals. It's competitive, it's challenging, but there's support there for players that might be struggling a little bit. It's really about making it elements of transition and possibly bringing in elements of chaos and competition, because that's ultimately what the game's about. And players will benefit from that and thrive off that. I've never, ever heard a group of players say, we're bored with playing the game, can we do something else, coach? So I think if in doubt, default to playing games with them and then be committed to developing some ideas, work with other coaches, commit to courses, other workshops, CPD, online forums are all great, and collaborate with others just to pick up a few ideas as you go. You know, if we think about players learning as long term, I think it's also important we think about coaches as medium to long term development. We don't expect novice coaches to know everything on day one. You can learn with the players and you can increase your knowledge as the player's ability and aptitude increases, so it's appropriate to the players you work with.

[Louise]

Brilliant. Lots to take away there with lots of really good tips. What would you say the key attributes and skills are that make a transformational coach?

[Mark]

Just to explain where transformational coaching comes from, for those that might not have heard of this, so it comes from leadership studies of the difference between laissez-faire leadership, which is just letting players do what they want or letting people do what they want. Transactional leadership, which is about results driven. So I only value what you can bring in terms of performance to the environment versus transformational coaching, which is I value what you can bring from a performance to the environment, but I'm also interested in your development as a person. So probably four key elements for me, be a positive role model and inspire others by your values and your behaviour. So we want to create coaches that people want to be like, they're inspired by them, they want to aspire to be like them. So I think that's really important. I've already talked about building supportive relationships. So show empathy, build trust by doing what you say you're going to do, having the best interest of the players at heart, two-way communication and provide personalised support for individuals to understand what they're good at, what they need to be better at and difficult within a team game, but try and tailor it individual to, to help them develop and enjoy the game. From a player engagement point of view, allow players input, give them problems to solve, and value the learning process and the behaviours and the performance over results, particularly at a young age. I mean, obviously, if you're doing it for a job in a full-time environment, then results do become more relevant. But I think still the process of have good values, develop good behaviours, that leads to better performances, which can ultimately impact your results. And I think probably the last one is positive motivation. So create a positive environment, which is safe, secure, supportive of players, be enthusiastic, have confidence in your players and provide meaningful challenge for them and meaningful tasks, but recognise that learning takes time and players will make mistakes. So be empathetic when that's happening. I think that would probably sum it up for me. Great.

[Jamie]

Thank you. Yeah. Brilliant. Thanks. Excellent description as well. Like being able to explain that for our listeners. Really appreciate that. Can you tell us a little bit now about what your journey was like from you first starting out to your role here today?

[Mark]

Cor, this might be a bit of a memory test from my journey in the way school. We might be going back sometime. So as I've said, I started out coaching when I was 16, still playing at the time, didn't make the grade as a player, went on and trained to be a teacher. At the same time, did my badges, which back in the day was, you know, the old prelim and then the full badge, which is now the A licence. Did a variety of experience working in community schemes, working in America, coaching abroad, working in Holland, you know, that was a positive experience, all in grassroots settings, working in a professional club environment. I was based down in Sussex at the time, which was the centre of excellence back then, involving representative football with the English Schools FA for a period of time, and then had a bit of a hiatus where I went and worked in sports marketing for about 8-10 years. So I was kind of one step removed from coaching and being involved boots on the grass. But what that was really good for was during that period I was exposed to lots of good coaches, lots of good coaching practice. So Dutch system, South American, you know, how they develop their coaches, Southern European, Portugal, Spain, Germany. So, so had a broad experience of not necessarily time on the grass myself, but actually seeing a wide variety of, you know, knowledgeable and experienced coaches work, which helped my development. Then decided to come back to my first love, which is education and coaching and coach development. Worked as a freelance coach in the South of England for a period of time, probably about 10 years. And for the last 10 years, been with the FA as a regional coach to begin with, then as a county coach developer based in Sussex and supporting coaches across the southeast and as I said for the last three years supporting coaches, particularly women coaches, coaches working in the female game, which has been absolutely eye-opening for me and has been inspirational and brilliant because just the energy, enthusiasm and just the willingness to learn and take on new ideas has been really refreshing. So, so yeah, I suppose the thing that the things that kind of are constants around my career would be education, sport, children, learning. Those are probably the building blocks that whatever flavour or whichever company I've been working for, whichever badge I've been wearing, those haven't changed throughout my career.

[Louise]

So with taking everything into account from what you've learned and your different experiences, so whether they've been directly in football or slightly outside of it, what advice would you give to your younger self to prepare yourself for stepping into the world of coaching for the first time?

[Mark]

So I think probably know the game. So learn the game and learn coaching, coaching, teaching, those are interrelated. So know the game, understand coaching, understand your role. So what is it there to do to help the players? Is it a recreation environment to have fun? Is it a performance environment where you really need to, yes, have fun, but progress the players? Be humble and curious and above all, value the contribution of others. That would probably be the key things that I would think about looking back and advice to my younger self.

[Jamie]

So that's advice that you would give, but if we look at another angle, what would you say the best piece of coaching advice is that you've ever received?

[Mark]

John Orpress was a former FA coach and was heavily involved in the development and rollout of the Youth Awards and he used to say when your players come to training imagine they're wearing two badges, one that says, help me enjoy it, and the other that says, help me learn and develop. And I think all too often we kind of, in coaching or any debate of ideas, we kind of have an either or approach. So it's very much one or the other. I think it's both. And we kind of say, well, in a recreation environment, just enjoy it. No, no, no. Enjoyment means different things to different people. So I think part of enjoyment is becoming competent at something and improving. So I think it's, again, goes back to understanding the players. Why are they there? But yeah, really make sure they have a positive experience, but also create an environment where there's the potential for learning. And I say that potential for learning, because learning is not within our gift. We can just either support and enhance it and create the right environment, or sometimes we can actually negate that and make it more difficult for players to learn.

[Jamie]

I really like that. That's a really good saying as well, like just to keep it at the forefront of our minds when we are coaching. They're there to enjoy it. They're there to learn as well. And that is our role, you know, as coaches to be able to provide that. So thank you very much for that. Now, one of the things that we really wanted to delve in today, Mark, is your view on volume and variety. For listeners tuning in today, we actually provided a bit of an overview on this topic with Mark Neville back in season two. So for those who haven't heard that, can you start us off by explaining what volume and variety means, please?

[Mark]

Yeah, and I think that was a really good listen. I mean, Mark, vast amount of knowledge, and it was really interesting to listen to his experience, largely in the pro game. I come largely from a grassroots environment, but the principles remain the same. So variety, probably broad and balanced experiences, different skills, different playing positions, present players with different scenarios and different problems to solve. And scenarios or problems to solve, I mean, four attackers, three defenders, go and score. You're two nil down, 10 minutes to play. How are you going to solve that problem? And repetition of that, having lots of goes at it. Different formations or game styles. So as coaches, we'll all have a preference, but recognise that players need to be exposed to difference. And again, just two examples from the professional game that I've picked up anecdotally. Roy Hodgson, when he went to Palace, I think it was last season, to steady the ship, works on defending every single day. And probably an even more outrageous example, Benitez, when he was at Liverpool, they practiced every single week playing with three at the back. They used it once in the entire season for half the game. It was the second half of the Champions League final when they were 3-0 down. So, you know, those examples where we might not use it, it might not be by preference, but I'm exposing players to a variety of scenarios. I heard once a coach's job is to prepare players for what might happen in the game. So there'll be lots of examples that maybe, you know, our preference might be to play a 4-3-3, dominate possession, but there'll be times when you need to do things differently and also recognise that those players might not be with you for their whole career. Linking into that in terms of the broad and balanced from a variety of different game formats. So 11v11 is for adult senior game, 9v9, 7v7, 5v5 are the other formats that the FA advocate. But we also really value like 1v1s, 2v2s, 3v3s, so individual skill development and individual techniques and also you know two-player, three-player combinations are a big part of what the FA are advocating on the understanding that you know particularly in the foundation phase the skill hungry years If we can get players to be really good at controlling their body, controlling the ball, that lends itself to better tactical understanding at a later age. So better techniques lead to better tactics. And I think players, when they first start the game, they need to fall in love with the game. So they need to experience the ebb and flow, you know, the scoring and stopping goals, the transition moments, they definitely need to experience that because otherwise, how would they know whether they enjoy it and whether the, you know, where the skills fit in, what the rules and conditions are. But beyond that, the benefits of playing small sided are very much about contacts on the ball, individual actions going up massively compared to playing large side games where they might not be too involved for a large part of the time. So I think different formats within that, different surfaces, different equipment. So big goals, small goals, end zones, target players, surfaces, playing concrete, playing indoors, playing outdoors, play futsal, like different ball doesn't bounce so much. So that offers another thing. Playing with underloads or overloads. So you get to experience that as part of the game, how are we going to solve this problem? We've got three players, they've got five, how are we going to defend, how are we going to counterattack? And then probably beyond that, broadening out beyond football, probably playing different sports and having cultivating interest beyond football. Because what I'd probably advocate is, you know, develop a life where football is a significant part, not the be all and end all, because if football is taken away from that child at whatever point, then what are they left with? So I think it's, you know, we want to avoid that all or nothing approach. So that's variety. Volume, quite simply, it's about frequency, intensity, duration and quality of actions, largely focused on technical and physical. So repeated sprints, twisting, turning, changing direction, but also the technical components of how many contacts on the ball, how many 1v1 duels, how many shots do I get on goal, or how many chances do I have to save the ball if I'm a goalkeeper. So yeah, the volume is really about that frequency, intensity, duration of actions, which could be in one training session, it could be in one game, but also think broader than that and look more medium term in terms of what are the players being exposed to. So if a child only ever plays right back for you, they're only going to experience a very limited movement pattern and they're going to have a very limited range of technical and tactical understanding of the game. So that's probably why it's important to give the variety to support that volume.

[Louise]

So if we're thinking about actually trying to put volume and variety into your sessions, how would you go about that? So it'd be really good to hear kind of a detailed example of how you'd use a practice template and add more layers to it perhaps?

[Mark]

Yeah sure, so yeah as you said Louise one thing I'd do is because repetition is key to learning one thing I encourage coaches particularly grassroots but at all levels is to repeat practices often so that players and coaches get used to how the practices work and what we're trying to achieve, how the rules and conditions work. For players, this leads to more time on tasks and for coaches, it frees you up to observe players' performance because you're no longer thinking about, you know, will this practice work? Thinking about player behavior, I can actually free me up to start observing and having a look. So I'll give a simple example from the grassroots game. So probably five to nine year olds, something like that might be appropriate. So if you think of the game through the gate, so imagine a rectangle marked out, rectangle or square, so that's the playing area. Using flat spots or cones, Imagine five on a dice, for example. So some gates that the players can move through. So in terms of layering up that practice, I might start without a ball. So players are just getting used to different movements. So they're moving left, moving right, twisting, turning, changing direction, landing on the ground, getting up again, taking off with one foot, landing on the same foot, taking off with one foot, landing on the other foot. So they're getting a variety of different movement patterns whilst moving through gates. So the focus is really on, oh right, let's get through the gates. So the kits are quite competitive. Oh, can I get through three gates? Can I get through five gates? But all the time you're building in those underpinning movement patterns in terms of ABCs, agility, balance, coordination, and speed. You might then move to some kind of tag activity, so now it's read and react. So I've got, I've been exposed to some movement patterns. I've now got to read and react to evade the person that's trying to tag me. So, attacker, defender in a football context. And then because for younger players, their control of the ball, so that would be control of their body, control of the ball wouldn't be necessarily great. Because again, trying to control a ball with your feet is quite hard because you know it's hard to control your limbs that are further from your center of gravity. That's the case with the ball at feet. So I might start by playing with hands and getting players to move in and out of the cones, scoring goals and really there's a couple of things that I'll be looking for there to help players in terms of layering up the practice is one thing about protecting the ball. So if I'm running and I've got the ball out in front of me, it's always exposed to the opposition being able to steal it when we progress to a game, whether that's with my hands or with my feet. So think about how I manipulate the ball and how I use my body to protect the ball and keep it away from others. And then think about tempo. So when do I go quickly? When do I go slowly? To support that activity, I might then start to think about introducing safe zones. So there might be an end zone, there might be zones on the side where players can go and rest. They can dip in, dip out of the practice, which then mirrors that tempo of sometimes in practice, when we get the kids there, we're so keen to get on with it that we, you know, we want them working at 100 miles an hour, full tempo all the time. It's not how the game is played and physically, technically, tactically, it's not desirable. It's not possible. So then we might move to ball each on the floor. So now they're getting lots of contacts with the ball, but the principles of, can you use your body to protect the ball? Can you think about when you go quickly, when you get through a gate? How do you do that? What skills do you use? I think those things transfer from playing with hands to playing with feet. Then some kind of opposition, but quite a big overload. So you might play in 4v1, 5v1. Defender in the area might keep the safe zones in so they get that rest and recovery. What you'll find then is the better players tend to stay in the middle more. The players that need a bit of help and support will spend more time on the outside. You also get the activity where, you know, it's all about dribbling, staying on the ball, that practice, but you've got the hidden curriculum, which is about defending, then we might go to some kind of more balanced overload. So maybe a 4v2, 3v1. So now players are not only thinking about themselves as an individual, contacts on the ball and techniques, they're thinking about how and when do I combine with others? So for the player on the ball, When am I going to keep it? When am I going to release it? For the players not on the ball, how can I help my mate? So that's about movement, positioning, supporting the player on the ball, you know, but with some kind of reward for the defenders if they win it. So can they run it into end zone? Can they score on the goal? I think go to some kind of directional practice. So it could be end zones, it could be goals, could be target players. You can still keep the reward of scoring points through the gates, but now you've got an overload in practice. So we're still going to get lots of contacts on the ball for the overloaded team. But now we need to think about tactics as well in terms of how do invasion games, how do we penetrate in order to score a goal and give players experience of both being overloaded and underloaded. And then eventually you move those restrictions and you move more fluidly to a game. But I think the other thing I'd use the safe zones for is protecting the ball and retaining possession. So sometimes if you look at the game at the top levels, they'll look to attack and if they think they're outnumbered or we don't want to attack here, they'll recycle the ball and they'll use play rounds, which can be off the goalkeeper and be off the centre half, and they'll just recycle, they'll go back and out the other side, and then they just go, look, we're going to keep it. Oftentimes our practices don't have that for young players. So I think replicating those elements would also be important. So I know it's difficult when I've got a picture in my head and I'm using words to try and explain to coaches, but those would be some examples of levelling up or using layers. So I've got one template, but I can do an awful lot with that over a period of several weeks. So, you know, and for coaches working with really young players, probably to summarise, play without a ball, play with hands, play with feet, make it directional, make sure there's a scoring system, end up with some kind of game, which can be overloaded, underloaded, and it can be matched up, or you could have sections of both. That would probably summarise how I would layer up. And again, I probably should mention the STEP principle, which people hopefully will be familiar with, but Steps, Mans for Space, Task, Equipment, Players. Manipulating any one of those changes the outcomes and the returns from the practice in terms of what players are being asked to do. So a simple example, Players. So everybody's got a ball, there's no defenders. So I've got time to figure out, to practice, and I'm kind of trying out new stuff. If we then introduce a 3v1, so straight away there's a defender that's going to be trying to stop me. So I'll make mistakes, my success rate will go down. So it's really important for the coach to still praise positive intentions even if the outcome isn't good. We then progressed to 2v2. That makes it easier for the defender because he or she has now got a mate, but it's made it harder for the attackers. So I think step principle is probably the key to how do you manipulate the practice to make it easier or harder or change the challenge.

[Jamie]

Brian, that was fantastic and I mean I find it fascinating in terms of don't want the idea to get lost in terms of the fact that you're using a practice template so to speak so the benefits of that Does that make your session so much more effective because you've saved a lot of time and then there's that repetition of people getting used to that template because you're using it all the time but that leveling up brings it makes it feel new. Is that what you're saying is basically that that is such an effective approach to use?

[Mark]

Yeah, I think a couple of things there, Jamie. One for players. So it's repetition without repeating. So it's the techniques of the game don't change. Being successful, it's stopping, scoring goals. It's passing, receiving, turning, dribbling, shooting, defending, intercepting, covering, marking, those kinds of things, goalkeeping. So those kinds of things don't change. So there's only so many ways you can coach passing. You don't need 57 different templates to coach passing because it's just probably too many. And you'll get overloaded with the organisation and so will the players. But what you don't want is the same thing every single week, because same thing every single week. It can be monotonous, it can be boring, and it can lead to players becoming jaded and potentially demotivated. So I think it's that way of thinking about, how do I present the same? So it's repetition without repeating. So same techniques, same kind of game problems or similar kind of game problems, but with a slightly different hairdo that says to the players, oh, this is interesting, this is different. I think the other thing from a player's point of view for the coaches to look at is Within your session, there'll be players that are striving ahead. There will be players that are coping in the middle. You normally would pitch it in the middle, but not always. And there was players that were struggling to keep up. So that's when we might need to go, look, I can vary it. It doesn't have to be the same for everybody all the time. So they might be working on the same skill, which could be passing or jibbling, staying on the ball, whatever. But it looks different for individuals based upon their own attributes, what they're good at, what they need to be better at and what we think they want and need at this particular time. The final thing to say from a coach development point of view. I think coaches go through stages of copying sessions. So you might see somebody do it face to face, you might see it online, you think that looks good, I'm having a go at that. So you'll copy verbatim and then you'll go to, actually I've had a go at that, I might need to adapt this for my players, or I might see the game differently. I've got another idea, I might try that. And eventually with your understanding of the game develops, you'll actually create your own practice. So you look at the game and go, right, what game problem are we trying to solve? I'll now create my own practice. So there's nothing wrong with copying. I think coaches have to go through that phase of collecting information and then that internal filtering process of going actually which ones work and which ones don't. So over the years I've probably not got loads more practices. What I've got better at is understanding what each practice can do for me and the players and then selectively using that. So I'd probably work off half a dozen templates for any topic. I mean obviously depending on context, depending on the players. So you know I might encourage coaches to kind of develop their core practices or some coaches call it a playbook where you've got your core practice, your go-to practices, but you can manipulate that up or down in terms of challenge for the players using the step principle.

[Jamie]

Just want to follow up from that, Mark, so I just got a couple of questions. At the start, you mentioned, obviously it saves a lot of time, so coaches are then able to spend that time observing more than maybe if they was changing practice templates quite a lot or changing sessions and setting up another area for instance. So my first question is just like with that extra time to observe what should coaches be looking out for?

[Mark]

Great question and probably observations interventions particularly if it's game or game-like is the hardest thing we do in coaching. To support coaches with that, the FA Coach Development Department, we have a range of what are probably called thinking tools. So they're not like, this is the only way to do it. It just gives you a, gives coaches a guide and gives them a framework to look at and observe and think about what am I going after tonight with my players. And that will go back to that variety and that volume, but also understanding your players in terms of what are they good at, what do they need to be better at. So starter, which is probably the most, probably been in use the longest from an FA point of view, four corner model. So it's about long-term player development. It's not the only model out there, it's the model we've tended to use over the years. And it just gets coaches to think about the player holistically. So technically, tactically, physically, socially, psychologically. And back in the day when I first started coaching, we'd do pre-season where we'd run and the ball wouldn't come out, then we'd play football. We wouldn't really worry about whether the players were engaged or they were feeling okay, or they were motivated. We just go, they're players, they'll do as they're told. They'll get on with it. Show me age a little bit there. But then we kind of realised that actually you can't separate them. People respond if they are socially accepted as part of the group. They feel safe and comfortable. They feel motivated. They feel challenged. So that social psychological is really, that needs to be right. And then try and blend the physical and the tactical and the technical. So Marino used to say the best way to get people fit for football is play football. And I think that's probably right. So actually going which corner or corners am I dialing up or dialing down for this player? And bear in mind, it could be for the whole group. Pre-season, we probably do need to focus on the physical corner at some point, but recognising it could be different for different players. So Jamie, you could be working on physical corner. Louise, technical. I could be working on social corner in terms of how do I communicate with my teammates. Another model is to, once the practice is up and running, it allows me to zone in on either individuals or small group of players, so game within a game. So you can think about before, during and after. So what does the player do before they're on the ball? What do they do when they're on the ball? And what do they do after they've released the ball? And that cycle is really useful to give them some ideas. So thinking about, before I receive it, can I have an open body shape so I can see around me? So make better decisions during, stay on the ball, penetrate, combine with others, whatever that may be in terms of your game model, player capabilities, and the scenario and the situation in front of them. And after, then how do I move? Do I support? Do I cover? Do I make a run into the box? But recognise that after also becomes before. So we've got four corners before, during, after. We can think about on, around, away from the ball. So, you know, small-sided games, great for contacts on or around the ball. So I'm getting lots of touches from an individual. I'm also thinking about two and three player combinations. The benefit of larger sided games is I've got more thinking and planning and scanning and predicting away from the ball, which is really good for tactical development. So as players get older and they get to understand the game more, then that away from the ball becomes more relevant. An interesting thing there in terms of observation, it's not really effective to intervene with players when they're on the ball, unless it's a training session you want to stop the practice. But beware of stopping the practice too often because you kill players motivation. So the best time often in a game on a match day or even in a training session of the games, you want the game to flow, is to look at what's happening away from the ball. That's probably a good time to intervene and talk to the player there. So yeah, that's another one. And then Recently, again, some really great work in terms of six key capabilities of skillful players. So we talk about scanning, movement, positioning, timing, technique, and disguise. So we're not suggesting that coaches should focus on all of those all the time, but you might pick out, you know, if the session's designed receiving and turning, that might be relevant to your midfield players if they're playing position specific but it could be relevant to all. So I might then think about scanning movement and position as some key things for receiving the ball in order to play forward and penetrate and be clever and creative on the ball. So depending on the theme that you're working on, you can think about what thinking tool will help me with my observation and what do I want to focus on tonight.

[Jamie]

Brilliant. And kind of my second question is kind of around, so coaches now have, with this approach, have more time to observe what's going on. Another benefit of it, is it because you're using a template and I know we'll be dialing up in some areas and dialing down in others to make sure that it's different for players so that they don't get bored of it being the same thing, but because it is the same template, does that allow players to have ownership maybe over how some things are done within that because they are used to that template and then they can have a little bit of ownership on there to shape it how they see fit?

[Mark]

Yeah, that's great. Something called spiral curriculum where you'll revisit topics again and again, but you just deepen the knowledge and understanding. So players will become more comfortable to begin with. So they'll then have their go-to moves or their go-to techniques or tactics. They go, I can solve this problem this way. But if we want to create a positive learning environment that includes risk-taking, creativity, making mistakes, players will only do that if they're comfortable with the basics. So I think that really opens it up to a deepening of knowledge, trying different things, understanding my role better, understanding cues and triggers in terms of predicting what might happen next. So cues and triggers are advanced warning systems that with experience players get to understand what the opposition might be doing next or what a teammate might be doing next. So looking at the foot placement, looking at the backlift before they strike the ball, looking at the head movement and the hips and the shoulders. Not always because players can disguise their intentions, but can give you some clues of this ball is going to be played over the top here. So I might start my run now to get in a good position to receive. So it's things like that in terms of just that deepening of understanding. As a coach, what you can also do is kind of start with what I would call nice competition, where you might be focusing on repetition, depending on the player's stage of learning. So we get loads of goes at it and we're quite within our comfort zone. Then we might go for nice competition where it's competitive but you know we're kind of going no this is okay. There is something out there called nasty competition that doesn't mean we need to be horrible individuals, definitely not. We go back to our values of being positive role model but what that means is if we always put players in a position where they're comfortable in training games, when it comes to match day it's not like that. So we're actually setting players up to fail. So I think this idea of going, you know, we might go look we'll overload our midfield so we get low success, but if we overload our midfield on match day the opposition will suss that out and they'll put more players in midfield or they'll do something to stop us. So what I mean by nasty competition is that element where it's like, look, you've got to try and win the game now and we're going to try and stop you. And actually it's that ability for players to figure stuff out at the moment And for coaches to embrace the chaos and go, no, I'm not always going to give you a ready-made solution. You must try and figure this out. And that can take a little bit of time. So I think we want to promote a positive, enthusiastic approach from coaches and really that love of learning for players. But what we also must acknowledge, which I'm not entirely sure we always do, is sometimes learning is gritty and hard and frustrating because it's all about exceeding our current capabilities, which is not always a pleasant experience. So I think we need to keep, you know, going back to the John Old Press quote, we need to keep that enjoyment and development in balance and intention at all times.

[Louise]

Thanks for that. That was a really good overview of lots of information there, but really useful stuff, I think. So if we're looking at the approach, does the approach require coaches to work on the same topics or themes for a few weeks, or does it matter if they're changing the focus quite often?

[Mark]

My starting point for this would be there's no one right answer, one way of doing things. A variety of approaches, coaches will have their own preference based on their own experiences, their own knowledge, you know, their own understanding of effective learning. So I think the benefits of sticking with a theme for a period of time is that layering and that spiral curriculum where we can go into depth and detail. The potential downside of that and themes such as we're going to work on passing, we're going to look at playing out from the back or progressing the attack through midfield. Those are really useful for coaches because it allows us to narrow our focus. But what we've got to recognise is that's not how the game is played. Players will be doing all of that. So you can go with a theme, but recognise that you've got a hidden curriculum there. So if my theme is scoring and finishing, the hidden curriculum would be defending and stopping goals. So you've got both those elements going on at the same time. And I'll probably give the example of in a former life when I started teaching, PE teaching, you had to teach another subject. Mine were English and history. So if I was teaching history and I'm teaching the Roman Empire to year sevens, so 11 year olds, it's probably not valid that I teach them everything I know about the Roman Empire in week one. So I'll have some kind of structure, but I'll also read and react to the audience. So if I'm doing, I don't know, six weeks of teaching the Roman Empire, and apologies to any history buffs out there, I wasn't great as a history teacher, which is why they moved me off it quite quickly. So there's certain structures that make sense. You could go chronologically, you could go with key people, places and events, or you could go with impact on modern day. You know, so there's a variety of ways you can skew it and go, right, if I'm going to teach history, in week one, I plan to teach A, B, C and D. In week two, E, F, G and H, and so on and so forth throughout those six week periods. So I have a plan in mind, but it's kind of quite a loose plan. Because in week one, if I get in the classroom with the kids, and somebody comes up with something really interesting, and the group will motivate, like, you know what, I'm gonna go down that rabbit hole. So it's recognising, do I go down that rabbit hole and go off track? Or do I go, actually, let's pull it back and stick to the script to some degree. So it's part science, it's part art, where you're always kind of going playing one off against the other. And then the next thing is the lesson ends, we do a reflection, and we go and write this is what's coming next week. So that's that interleaving of we link what we've done this week to what we're going to do next week and how it builds into the bigger picture. So I plan to do A, B, C and D, but if I get through A, B, C, D, E and F, then G and H, I and J comes onto next week's plan. If I only get through A and B, E and F drops off and next week I'm doing C and D. So I'm always, always managing and always manipulating that environment. I'm not sure if that answers the question, but I think it's that balance between what we're working on now. So players need coaches to help me now. What does the player need in the moment from the coach? But we also need to have a medium term plan, which could be four to six weeks depending on whether you want to work calendar months or whether you want to work half termly to fit in with the school calendar. You know, if you're working with young players, entirely up to you. And you need that balance between the two, I think. So I need to plan for tonight because the players are in front of me and we need to help coaches help players now in the moment. But we also need to have an idea of how it fits into the bigger picture. And again, I wouldn't necessarily advocate this for grassroots coaches, because I think that's too onerous a task to be planning for the entire season. But I think at some point we need to look longer term in terms of these players are eight years old, I might only have them for one season, I might have them for a couple of seasons. What do I want them to go away from after this period? And really it's love of the game, so they come in there enthused and they're having a great time. It's some ability to control the ball, some ability to control the body, some social skills so that they can engage with their mates and then that takes them to the next level. So I was a history teacher, I wasn't great, my head of department, she was amazing, so my job was just to give them some, inspire them that history might be a subject that they're interested in and give them some basic skills so that a much more competent teacher could take them to the next level. And I think that's probably how I would answer that question.

[Louise]

So would you say that in terms of planning ahead as much as you can, but still leave things open to kind of be flexible on the day. And then I guess the other part to that is, so people who are limited with time, do you have any top tips for kind of planning if you are limited with time?

[Mark]

So in terms of, you know, medium to long-term curriculum, I think there are a number of ways you can do it. There are a number of valid reasons why you would plan to do certain topics. It could be based on modern trends. It could be based on the players at your disposal. It could be based on opposition you're facing or how, you know, it could be based on lead position, how recent results have gone. But if you're thinking about longer term development and you're focusing more on the learning, then a very simple methodology for that long-term plan over the season is you might have between 36, 42 weeks of the year, something like that, depending on the nature of competition. So that's between six and seven blocks of six weeks, which is roughly a half term in education terms. So we might divide the pitch into thirds and we might think about in possession, out of possession focus. And that gives us six topics. So in possession in our own defensive third and out of possession, in possession midfield, in possession up front. And the reverse of that is, you know, so how are we going to build the attack? How are we going to create and progress the attack? And how are we going to finish the attack? The opposition might be thinking about how we're going to high press them. What does a mid block look like? And when we're in a low block and we're defending around our penalty area, like emergency defending, what does that look like? That gives you quite a nice syllabus to follow for the period of the year. So that would be my probably a simple way to help coaches that are time poor. And again, I think probably for thinking about in terms of the individual sessions, how does one session link to the next session? So it's that retrieval practice. So often we'll have coaches where at the end of the session, and I've done this as well in the past, so we'll do a review of the topic and the players will give you the answers parrot fashion, because we've only just told them it five minutes ago. And then we go away going, great, you've learned that. No, they've just repeated what we've just told them. The real understanding of whether they've learned it is being able to retrieve it for the right environment and changes in behavior over a period of time. So that revisiting topics over a period of time, I think is really useful. And thinking about the start of session two, can I revisit something from session one that kind of links the learning and just progress along in that way?

[Louise]

I think that's great and a really good starting point for people to kind of start to think about that. So thank you.

[Jamie]

Finally, Mark, kind of to wrap this section up, could you summarise the key top tips from this discussion that we've had that you want coaches to take away?

[Mark]

Yeah sure, so think about what your players are like and what you want them to learn from the session. So I think about what do my players need, what's the focus of the night session and then design the practice. So often we'll jump straight to the practice without really thinking, does this give the players what they need? Then we can start to think about repetition versus realism in practice. So that will be based on players' stage of development and stage of learning. So where are they in terms of their physical and technical development? And where are we in terms of this topic? Is it the first time they've ever seen this concept or idea? Or is it week four of a block of work, so they've already got some ideas? That will help me understand whether I'm going for a practice that gives them lots of repetition and builds on successful outcomes, whether I really need to start to challenge their tactical understanding and their problem solving and their understanding of the right technique applied at the right time, which is the definition of skill. So that would be something else. Play lots of games and ensure the key elements of the game are replicated in your practice. So scoring and stopping goals, transition moments would be absolutely key. And I think sometimes we kind of, as coaches, we sometimes get so immersed in it that we can't see the wood for the trees. And actually leaving the players to their own devices, they'll actually come up with far more effective stuff that's relevant to their own development stage. Set problems for players to solve and involve them in generating solutions. So again, there's several reasons for that. One is retention, retrieval of learning. The more you involve people in the learning process, the more likely it's going to resonate and be memorable for them. So the more likely they are to retrieve it. But on a more practical level, you're not playing on the weekend, they are. So if you wait until five minutes before kickoff, before you cut the umbilical cord between coach making all the decisions and handing it off to players, then that's probably too late. But it will depend on the age and stage of the players and, you know, your preferences as a coach. So again, no one right way. And again, probably the final thing for me is embrace the struggle. So don't always provide ready-made solutions for players. So I think I heard a phrase once, you know, don't do for people what they can't do for themselves. The difficulty is if we always solve players' problems, we act like a bit of a waiter and every time there's a problem we hover in and solve that for them. How do we know what the players are capable of if we never put them in that environment where they have to figure stuff out for themselves? So I think in teaching there's something called skillful neglect. I've seen it, but I'm choosing to ignore it because I'm interested in observing how the players solve this particular problem. And again, keep pushing them, but don't push them so far that they fall off a cliff.

[Louise]

Fantastic. Just to kind of move on from that and put something to our listeners that they can perhaps try out, Would you be able to set them a coaching challenge? So based on what we've been talking about, something that they could potentially try and then discuss with their peers on the England Football Community?

[Mark]

Yeah, sure. So take any practice template we've talked about through the gate today. It could be that, it could be anything you like. Find a friend, diamonds are forever, any number of practice. So take a practice template. And my challenge to the coach is, can you come up with nine variations or progressions from that practice using the step principle? And the reason I say nine variations is think about beginner, intermediate, advanced, Depending on the topic and depending on the group, you'll have all those players within your group. So you'll have players that are struggling with it, players that are coping, players that are striving. So I'm not sure whether beginner, intermediate, advanced are the right words, but hopefully you get what I mean. And then let's take beginner. Can you introduce it? Can you develop it? And can you extend it in terms of that practice? So you start with something, you then set them something else, and then you've finished with some kind of extension activity, which might well be a game. So that would be nine boxes, beginner, intermediate, advance, introduce, develop, extend. If nine is too much, I'll set the challenge of three. So can you come up with three progressions for that particular practice, which would be a session in effect, would be a one hour session for a grassroots coach on a weekday evening.

[Louise]

Sounds great. And I think it'd be really good to kind of hear how people get on with that, what things they tried, what progressions they tried and how did it, what happened, what was the outcome and kind of start that discussion. So thank you for that.

[Jamie]

Thank you very much for that and yeah please do let us know how you get on. Right well we are coming up to the end of the show now, but that does mean it is time for our swift session feature.

[Louise]

Yes. So here we are with another 30 second challenge just to round off the episode. So, we're going to set the timer up. I'm going to give you another 30 seconds, as I said, but we're going to ask you to explain to us a session idea in those 30 seconds. Are you up for another challenge?

[Mark]

Yep, I think so. We've got

[Louise]

a timer ready. And when that starts, you can begin.

[Mark]

So I'd call this session instant shooting. So it's probably a 3v3 in a smallish area with goals and goalkeepers. So the idea is that if the ball goes out of play, we start with a keeper and the ball comes back in. So what you'll get there is lots of 1v1 duels. You'll get lots of variety in finishing techniques, you'll get lots of movement and support angles and maybe some combination play. You can then progress that by adding an element of chaos where if the goal can make a save in live play, they can shoot. So players have to read and react to transition moments.

[Jamie]

That brilliant.

[Louise]

Yeah, perfectly done again. Wasn't sure if you were going to make it, but you did. So it's very good.

[Jamie]

It was a great session idea nonetheless, but do you have anything that you maybe need to add any further context or anything that you missed out in those 30 seconds?

[Mark]

The only thing I would say is then think about stick a halfway line in and think about putting some constraints on players. So you might play 2v1 in each half, which gives players different problems to solve so players can play in and join in. So it might be you break down the challenges for players. How do you get the ball into the attack in half? How does the striker create space for themselves? Do they drop in? Do they look to play in behind? How do you create a scoring chance in the attacking third would be the second challenge. But then how do you guard against the counter-attack? So we could overload by putting all of our players into the attacking half, but then we're vulnerable to the counter-attack so it's just again that leveling and layering up of same practice, fun and engaging, players love it but you can set different problems for them.

[Louise]

Fantastic.

[Jamie]

Thank you very much for your time today Mark it's been fantastic listening to you and some really great advice for our listeners to take away. Yeah, it's been great having you on. Hopefully you've enjoyed it as well.

[Mark]

Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it and thanks for having me on and, you know, Coachcast is great what you do for grassroots coaches and professional coaches. Thanks very much.

[Jamie]

Brilliant, thank you very much. Very kind words.

[Louise]

Thank you.

[Jamie]

Right. Well, that's all we have time for today, but don't forget to check out the episode description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There, you will be able to click through to the England football community, And this is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.

[Louise]

Yep, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions, so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.