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[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to Sarah Loudon, an FA regional coach development officer for the North East to discover her journey so far and to get her insight into coaching adults. Hi Sarah, welcome back to Coachcast. How are you?
[Sarah]
I'm well, thanks Jamie. How are you?
[Jamie]
Yeah, good, thank you.
[Louise]
It's really good to have you back on, really nice to have you on a second time.
[Sarah]
I know, you've welcomed me back so I must have done something alright.
[Louise]
You definitely did.
[Sarah]
I hope it's going to be useful for people this one, yeah so look forward to it.
[Louise]
Okay so as it was a little while since you've been on, can you give everybody a reminder of what your role is at the FA?
[Sarah]
Yeah so my role as a regional coach development officer, my role is to work with seven counties in the north west, to work with them to work with coaches, to help coaches, provide some support for them, deliver some CPD or coaching workshops and yeah hopefully give them some stuff that's going to help them when they're out doing brilliant work in grassroots.
[Jamie]
Fantastic thanks for that. Well just before we kind of dive into a bit more about you and to hear about the topic folks that we're going to be talking about today as this is a coaching podcast coaches could be on the way to training right now while they're tuning into this so we always like to give them some good advice at the top of the show.
[Louise]
Yep we call this your arrival activity so in that we'll be giving you 30 seconds and we'll ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can. Are you up for the challenge?
[Sarah]
Let's go.
[Louise]
Okay, so when the music begins you can start.
[Sarah]
Okay, so first thing is to remember why the players are turning up tonight or in your training session. Remember why they're there and with that the priority is to make the session engaging for your players. So do whatever you think is going to engage them and going to serve the needs as to why they're there. And don't stress yourself out too much as a coach. Just if you know your players and you give them some stuff they enjoy should be fine.
[Jamie]
Look at that, nice and succinct easily in that 30 seconds thank you very much that. Right well we'll go on into the main section of the show which is to find out a bit more about you first and foremost and we always start this Sarah by asking what was your first experience of football like?
[Sarah]
Really positive if I think back to what actually got me into football so I'm from Newcastle so I'm from a football mad family and a football mad town so really if you didn't like football growing up there wasn't much luck for you really. My first experience is just playing, playing football on the street, playing with my mates. They were actually all boys actually, I was the only girl. But yeah, going to the local park, going to the local field and just playing for hours and hours and absolutely loved it. Loved watching Newcastle play on TV and yeah, just really fell in love with the game really.
[Louise]
Sounds like a really fun environment to be part of and like lots of things going on that you can get involved in maybe.
[Sarah]
Yeah, like I say, so obviously growing up in that environment football mad everybody played football everybody talked about football and yeah I guess like when I was younger probably wasn't as much organised football as what I say there is now so really what you spent with your weekends and after school and even in school break time, lunch time, like you just always play and play with your friends really and football was the number one choice really so yeah it was fun.
[Louise]
Perfect and then if we look at it from a different angle when did your interest in coaching start and how did you get involved?
[Sarah]
Yeah I think when I went to college, so I went to a college where you played in like a football programme so you got to train a few times a week and you did your study as well and I remember actually there was somebody from the FA that came and did what was back then a level one. And to be honest, I wasn't really interested at the time, but still did it and was part of it and never really thought about it. So I was dead focused on playing really as you are when you're 16, 17. And then it was a couple of years later really that I decided to go down to my local club and just maybe get involved. I was playing for the for the women's team there and then just wanted to maybe see what was happening and got involved a bit and then by the time I moved to university really after that was when I kind of volunteered, contacted a local club to where I lived and yeah got involved that way really just to I guess my first thing for getting involved in coaching was there wasn't a lot of female role models as well so if I think about my journey never had a female coach girls football was kind of on the rise but maybe not kind of what it is to the level now and I just felt really that you know it would be good to do something back for the girls game really and that's how I got into it and I thought would be really easy and well it wasn't and then I guess I've been curious and wanted to be the best that could ever since really.
[Jamie]
You say you thought it was going to be easy. Do you want to dive into and tell us what that first experience of coaching was like then?
[Sarah]
Yeah, so because I'd contacted a local club and they said, oh yeah, you can get involved with the Under Nine Girls. And obviously I played the game and I thought I had pretty decent knowledge. I thought, all right, yeah, this would be easy. It'd be dead fun. I'll do my plan and everything will go to plan and it'll be really smooth. And obviously it's not. When you're brand new into it, the plan doesn't always go to plan when it comes to delivering. And yeah, I remember we had like, we used to train in a high school sports hall there were seven girls there and under nine so quite a lot of energy and yeah I guess what you're always trying to figure out like driving back on that didn't go to plan I was like why and then you're trying to think like was it me or did I get my practice wrong or was it the kids but then actually obviously now you know now that you you're far more experienced you know there's some things that you really need to establish when you're a new coach really so yeah that's what I meant by I thought it would be easy and it just wasn't really and that's what I think the best thing I did was to go and learn and went to some local workshops and actually for the first time watch Pete Sturges deliver he was probably one of the first person that I observed in a coaching workshop if you like and wow he just transformed the way that I ever thought about coaching and the age group that I was working with at the time which was under nines and transformed everything that I did because I've looked at what he was doing I thought I'm doing everything wrong so yeah that was a bit of a rocket really for my journey in terms of me wanting to learn more and wanting to understand more around how I can be better for the kids that were in front of me.
[Louise]
Yeah, lots of energy I imagine that session had and kind of really good advice and tips. Yeah.
[Sarah]
Especially on a Friday night, running riot, last day of school as well. And it's kind of like, you know, what do you do? And yeah, definitely would change some things now, but that's what hindsight's for, right? You look back and go, it's a learning journey.
[Louise]
And thinking of like hindsight and stuff do you think your playing experiences that you've had do you think that's influenced your coaching approach at all like perhaps not at the beginning but do you think it has now as you've developed?
[Sarah]
Yeah I think you often reflect on like what your journey was like and I think the key thing for me was maybe how coaches made you feel and I was thinking about this actually and I think what I've done now my approach is maybe took a snippet of a little bit of everybody So I've had quite a number of coaches in different contexts really from grassroots to maybe a little bit more performance. And I think what I do now is I've took the best bits that I liked about all of them and then kind of mashed it all together with my own personality. And I guess that's why I'm the coach that I am now. Bit of an insight really. I have a copy of just one person. I think I've took a bit of everything and gone, well actually what's my style? And that's quite important. Yeah. Yeah.
[Jamie]
And I think that is important, especially when you're learning, like you're always going to learn from those that are around you, but to put your own spin on it as well is really important. What would you say you enjoy most about coaching?
[Sarah]
I think for me, looking back at the very first experience was seeing people grow and develop. I've got a passion for that and I think obviously with the role that I do now, for me, coaching was about that around how can we get these players from start A to Z and how can you see them develop along the way and for me that's probably the most rewarding thing about coaching is where you start with a group or with an individual and then where you see them go to and I think that's probably the best thing for me and the power of coaching really because coaching is teaching and it's about helping people improve or give them confidence and you know it might not be a technical thing it might be do you know what they've achieved something after six weeks and they're absolutely buzzing so for me that's probably you know the thing that I do enjoy most about coaching.
[Louise]
Really rewarding I imagine to see when you start seeing those improvements or changes in someone.
[Sarah]
Yeah, really rewarding. And like I say, I know coaches might coach for different things or they coach for performance or to win or to, you know, if they're in that context. But I think for me, definitely with being in youth football and probably my experiences, that was the key draw really was how can you support and see people grow in front of you really.
[Louise]
So we've heard little bits about your journey but could you give us a brief insight into what your journey was like from when you first started out and then to your role today just so we've got an idea.
[Sarah]
Yeah so like I say so starting at grassroots just volunteering and then gradually just over the years and because I said I thought it was easy and I found out that it wasn't the support that I got around that in terms of trying to learn and going to watch things and going to watch other coaches deliver and trying to get as much information for me to develop as a coach as I could. That then lended itself for me to work with different age groups so it was quite linear in terms of work with under nines, then you work with under 13s and then that developed onto me working with college groups and university football and then over time through getting some coach development and doing my qualifications as well, that led on to me maybe going into the, to what I'd call probably the talent part of the female game and then from there just growing and developing really went full, was part-time in the boys academy system and then a full-time coach there and then yeah coaching adults really in the female game so it's kind of like really quite linear but quite a good process for me and it was quite gradual and I think the range of experiences that I got actually really helped me in the role that I do now which is to mentor and support and develop other coaches really to help them because I've been in their shoes and I can understand probably what they're going through whether they're at the start of the middle or near the end of the journey really so yeah it's been really important to get a range of experiences.
[Louise]
I suppose it's almost like going full circle isn't it all of a sudden?
[Sarah]
Yeah pretty much and obviously just thinking that you know that's like a 12-13 year span to where I am now so it's a process and you do need to enjoy the journey along the way as well and it's not a quick fix to go right you know I want to be an academy coach and just that you'll get there in two years I think it's quite important to take your time and learn and almost making mistakes in some way and then you know make sure that the process is quite gradual.
[Jamie]
Taking in everything from all your range of coaching experiences so far what advice would you give to your younger self to help prepare them for stepping into the world of coaching for the first time?
[Sarah]
I think yeah looking back so maybe remember that the players might be only there for one hour a week so if you're in grassroots football in particular they might be there on a Wednesday night and then play their matches at the weekend So that one hour of football is probably the only football that they're going to get apart from the game. So try and give them as much game time as possible and make life quite simple for yourself in training. So play games that are engaging and play games that do have say a set outcome. So for example one that I love just going back to that context with an indoor was something called keep it on the island and what that game was about was basically say that you're a team Jamie and you're a team Louise you might start on 20 points and every time you score a goal that's fine it's like a normal game and you'd might go to 21 22 but every time the ball goes out you actually lose a point so it's still a game but actually what we were looking at was keeping possession and trying to get the kids to be confident on the ball to either stay on the ball or if somebody's dribbling for a teammate to support them because if the ball goes out then we lose a point so actually the emphasis was on something different but they're still playing a game so yeah that's probably advice that I give to my younger self really is to try and simplify it for yourself as a coach but to make it enjoyable for the players break training down play lots of 2v2s 3v3s because if they are only there for an hour a week they want lots of touches, they want lots of chances to dribble, to shoot, to pass, so yeah and always use goals wherever possible and I think that's that's really important for engaging the players and making the most of that hour that you've got with them.
[Jamie]
Fantastic advice, absolutely there, really is. If we kind of flip that a little bit what would you say is the best piece of advice that you've ever received before?
[Sarah]
Probably the best bit is to coach the players and not the session so what I mean by that is like let's say you've got a session plan and you've got an outcome and you're dead set on coaching the session, the progressions, but maybe your players aren't ready to move on or the progression maybe is too much for them or it's a piece around knowing your players as well. So if I know what my players needs are, that's the emphasis for them, what lets me plan a session around it. So if I know my players really need help like I just mentioned for keeping possession of the ball and being confident to stay on the ball then I probably want to do some games or some practices that help them do that rather than just going right we're doing shooting tonight and I'm not really meeting the needs of the players so yeah that was probably the best bit of advice that I've got in terms of coaching the players and not just the topic or the session because if I'm working with you Jamie and I know that you're really good at something you might need help something else I've got to coach you within that session rather than just the session itself if that makes sense.
[Louise]
Yeah it's a really good way of thinking about it a good like little thing to remind yourself with as well. What do you think the key attributes and skills that people need to be a transformational coach?
[Sarah]
Yeah I think for me like knowing your purpose and knowing why your players turn up so really our job as a coach is to it's for them it's for the players in front of you really, it's not really about you, hopefully people that get involved in coaching, you're passionate about development and helping people, so for me being a transformational coach it's that and it's remembering that at its core, so we care about the people that is in front of us and we want to make sure that the environment and everything that we do is geared around those needs of them and it's a journey, it's a process right so I think for me that transformational piece is understanding that, that it does take time, you might need to be patient with yourself with the players and trust in the process a little bit really and if something doesn't go to plan one week and you go I'm gonna scrap that and do something different actually I think there's I think patience has got a real a key part of this in terms of trusting in that process and some coaches maybe like put too much pressure on themselves and you know I always encourage the coaches that I work with to just remember what the purpose is and to keep it simple for yourself and just make sure that the players are at the forefront of everything that you do.
[Louise]
Yeah brilliant.
[Jamie]
Now Sarah you wanted to chat with us today about coaching in the adults game so for the next 25 minutes or so we're going to be focusing on that. So kind of to start the discussion do you have any top tips to help coaches adjust from the step from youth football to the open age game?
[Sarah]
Yeah this is a real common situation I guess and I know some coaches that I've worked with recently around kind of they do see it as that step up you know it's a little bit different the context is different and I guess why I want to maybe talk about this today is to maybe remove those assumptions that if the game becomes the adult game that we have to change everything that we do, that we have to change how we behave, sessions are different, how we might talk to the players are different or you know how we might treat the players almost as well. So I think my top tips for them would be to just maybe have an understanding about how the players might feel about going from the youth football to maybe open age football, because change can be quite difficult for them, but also for you as the coach, so it's having a collective understanding of that. And if you think about the four corner model, Jamie, so if you think about in terms of physically, might be a big difference. So if you've got say 16, 17, 18 year old potentially going into adult football, maybe playing against somebody that's quicker, stronger than them, it's going to be a real physical difference. That's then going to have an impact on their mentality and in the side corner in terms of how they might feel and how confident they might feel. So if I'm a really quick and strong player I might be fine but if my other teammates maybe aren't actually they might be their self-esteem might be affected and they might not be as confident. So I think it's just maybe having an awareness of that and then for me for the coaches in particular is to just stick to the basics to begin with because it's going to be new for everybody and be realistic with the players around what to expect as well so it's better to have minimal surprises so the more kind of prepared you can make the players that's the better it'll be because you will get you know think about the social corner as well if you've got an 18 year old with a 34 year old that might happen in open age football right so how's that dynamic gonna gonna work for you as the coach but also with them as well and just having a real awareness and understanding about it. Yeah.
[Jamie]
I was just going to ask on the back of that, like in terms of, especially like in the social corner, how do you manage the balance of that? How do you kind of understand where someone might be and what help they might need? Say like in that example, you just said an 18 year old playing with a 34 year old like how do you manage the relationships and the environment in that case?
[Sarah]
So the first thing I'd always encourage coaches to do is is have good working relationships with their players to know them as much as you can. I think it's a conversation around how they might be feeling about it but also with maybe a conversation with the older player and the younger player to go well actually how can you help each other out so like for example let's just say it's an open age women's team you've got people that might be teachers, police officers, whatever that 34 year old right And then you've got somebody that's 18 year old that and they're just going off to college. So I think it's just having an awareness then and maybe grouping the players. So if you've got some players that are maybe similar age to maybe set up some kind of like mini, I guess, like kind of like friendship groups, but almost like support groups as well and then maybe have conversations with the older players around almost giving them a role around like how can you be like a role model and a bit maybe of a almost like a mentor within the team. Like I say I know this this maybe takes time and it takes a lot of thought and a lot of planning but I think knowing your players and what their strengths are and what they might need help with and knowing how those two can maybe benefit each other as well because there'll be things that the older player will learn off the younger player and vice versa and it's just just be mindful of that as the season goes on really.
[Louise]
Yeah I think it's almost keeping in an open space as well wherever there's respect between everybody as well no matter what age they are
[Sarah]
yeah exactly and I think a big part of the coach's role in adult football is to set the right environment so depending on what the context is so if you're an open age team that is like a competitive team and you're maybe trying to climb the leagues for example and get promoted and things like that's slightly different context to maybe an open age team that just want to play with their mates at the weekend and it's more for social reasons so I think there's there's some things that you've got to establish about your environment. So what is it that you're doing at the club or within that team? And then I think that helps you then set the environment and have those conversations. And then from the players perspective, they know what the environment is and what it's not. And I don't think coach should shy away from that really. I think it's quite important to establish that environment first and then that will help everything else along the way.
[Louise]
I suppose it's kind of linked to environment but also just kind of knowing that whatever age it is everybody wants to have fun and kind of develop in a session and I guess it's still important to them but how would you say that sessions look different when you're coaching adults compared to kids or do they look different and if so in what way?
[Sarah]
I think it really depends and it was linked to what I said earlier about what your environment is and what it isn't so is it a competitive team that plays in a league and you're trying to get promoted or something like that, or is it more like a social kind of environment? I think that's important to establish and communicate with the players so they know. And then in terms of how sessions and how it might look compared to say kids football, I think that really depends. So, you know, in grassroots youth football, if it's about enjoyment, playing with their friends and, you know, enjoying the game and maybe their first kind of footsteps or they've been playing maybe one or two three years then that might look different. It might be more emphasis around the enjoyment factor and bringing the team together with their friends. Obviously in adult football, let's say if it is a competitive environment, then it probably will look different and it would be based on the needs of the league that they play in, match days, what they might need to prepare, what their philosophy is. So yeah, I think in terms of what you're saying around it's still got to be engaging and fun absolutely I agree with you because like I said you know adults who go to work or they've got careers and you know depending on what their context is they still want to go and enjoy their training sessions of course they do and that should always be at the forefront of everything that we do but it's just the slant of like you know what is the focus so is it focused on right we're preparing for a game at the weekend in this formation for example or is it actually it's a deloading session so maybe the first session after the match day that might look slightly different it might be more technical might be small number format So I think there's more to consider when you're coaching in the adult game around the players, their needs, and also the context of the league that you're playing in potentially.
[Jamie]
Yeah. And not that other age groups that this doesn't happen, but presumably the open age game, there's maybe more of a focus potentially on more advanced things like advanced looks into formations tactics styles of play for instance how can coaches build this into their practice design then?
[Sarah]
Yeah I think for me I think the key consideration is for coaches to understand the league and what their matchday requires. Okay, so what's what's the league about? Pay attention to that, you know, how a goal scored, what transitions look like, what are the strengths and weaknesses of your team to help prepare them in the best way? Usually, if you're attached to a club, you might have what we call a playing philosophy. So this is club X. We play like this. This is our style. This is our formation. That's got to be flexible in terms of the players that you've got as well because I'd always say that. Yeah it's great if you want to play 4-3-3 but if you haven't got the players to maybe play that or you've got different strengths in the place and you might want to change that. I also talk to coaches about being really flexible and fluid with formations and tactics because you can want to play one way but then you play the game starts 10-15 minutes in you might have to change. So this is what I talk to coaches a lot about in terms of having principles so for me the most important thing is to have principles that fit the strengths of the players so this gives the players clarity but also you as a coach and this is where you can build a season-long plan based on that and it does take time and a bit of process but for me Jamie if I'm looking at this is our principles as a team this is what we're going to look like in September and then we're just going to build all the way through the season that's what we stick to is like the foundation and then for me the tactics and the formations and other things around that or maybe just a little bit bits of add-ons especially if you've got I don't know let's say adult teams train maybe once or twice a week depending on their context. You've got two sessions to get your message across really for the weekend. So I think for me having principles really clear for the players is the most important thing and then you just adding on bits and extras that you might cover in training for example to help them prepare for the match at the weekend.
[Jamie]
And do you have any other advice to help coaches with their practice design when they work with adults at all?
[Sarah]
I think one like I say it's understanding what they're there for and what they can bring to the team and what their strengths are. Because then around that then you know well what do my players like to do in training, what don't they like and also what's going to help me prepare for the match day really. So you might do a bit of a mix of everything because you can't please everyone at the same time but it might be important to get like a good blend of everything. So allow them to practice what's going to help them on match day. So for example let's say you've got forwards and strikers. Well if you want to give them some confidence in the week you might do 20 minutes of an hour and a half session around that or some finishing stuff to help them to give them a little bit of confidence and you might do that with midfielders as well or maybe people that play in your back line or with your goalkeepers because we all talk about goalkeepers right it's almost like they get like their own specific session I know that in the adult game it's kind of like right outfielders go with one area goalkeeper get like their own kind of almost individual session right but I think it's important to blend that because the goalkeeper still part of the team right so as much as you can involve them with team-based practices the better and like I said the number one thing is just being clear be absolutely clear in terms of what we call roles and responsibilities. So if I know I'm playing a full back at the weekend in this style or this formation, I want to make sure in training that I am absolutely crystal clear on what you want me to do and then how I then connect that with my teammates in my unit, for example, in the back line, but then also how does my role and responsibility help when I've not got the ball or when I have got the ball? And if gradually you can build that over a season long kind of period or shorter if you can, that for me is the most important bit in adult football. If you're playing like a competitive context rather than doing stuff that's random try and make it specific so they've got absolutely clarity for the weekend in terms of what you want them to do.
[Louise]
I guess some of that is kind of some of those things that would probably answer this and like giving people clarity and things like that but do you have any other top tips for keeping adults engaged in sessions I guess if it's tailored to them they're going to be more engaged but is there any other things that you would think of putting into your sessions?
[Sarah]
Yeah just be mindful of practice design I think most people you go to a football session you want to play some sort of game whether it's a counter-attacking game whether it's small format you want to shoot at a goal, you want to make it as real and relative as possible to that. I think that's the same for youth football really. You don't want them stood in lines, you don't want them stood just waiting, getting cold, having minimal touches of the ball. I think adults are exactly the same. A little bit different to maybe consider that you might want to cover some real specifics around how maybe you're going to play at the weekend. But don't make both sessions about that where maybe you stood still and your players are losing engagement or one thing that we talk about is weather. I know this might sound really silly but definitely with young kids but adults are the same so if it's absolutely freezing and there's rain and you stop starting all the time and you're trying to just talk at the players or to show them things and they're not moving a lot they're going to switch off because they're cold or they're disengaged or maybe you've given them too much information that's exactly the same for younger players as well so I guess it's just understanding your players understanding what you're trying to do and then also just being mindful of the other factors that maybe might impact that that would be my top tips really.
[Jamie]
And just kind of sticking with the theme of sessions I think we actually spoke about this for another piece of content, Sarah, which is coaching interventions, basically. And I'm just wondering, like, how do you approach coach interventions in training with adults? Did it happen less frequently than maybe to do with kids? And did it tend to be a bit more detailed potentially compared to if you was working in youth football.
[Sarah]
Yeah so I would say that this comes down to knowing your players so for example I might have one player who needs certain information this way so they might need round the board this is what happens this is maybe where I want you to be or what I want you to look at and you give them a visual. Some players might just need a really short conversation. Some players might need a full picture. So what we call like a walkthrough. So when the ball's here maybe have a look at this or think about this and this is your job and this is yours. Fine. Or some players might not need that much at all. Like some players in the adult game, like it depends. I think that's why best thing that you can do in the adult game is to really understand your players and understand how they like to have information. You know, cause some players might switch off if you overload them. How you might send your message is really important as well. Do you do it in front of the group? Do you take them to the side? Do you just say something as maybe the session's live and you're just going, oh, Louise, come here, just think about this or do this. It honestly depends and that's why the most important thing I think is to know your players and how they like to take information and that is what will impact your intervention style and length.
[Jamie]
Just thinking of your experiences and this might be a bit of an unfair question to ask because again it's all about knowing your players and what you're working on as well but do you find yourself saying specific things in terms of like with interventions that whenever you're making them is it very tactical sort of advice for instance in adult football or is it more skill development in terms of asking them questions to help them with whatever it is that they're working on. I'm just trying to think, is there any major differences in terms of what content you're potentially giving adults compared to youth players, for instance?
[Sarah]
Yeah, I think it would depend on, say, the experience of the player that you're working with. So let's go back to that example of that 34 year old depending on their playing experience and their background that might indicate as to what detail and information you might give them and I think it's really important for coaches not to assume because also just because somebody's been playing for 12, 13 years doesn't necessarily mean that they might know what you're talking about or what you're trying to work on them with. So again, this is why it all comes back to knowing the players and building relationships with them, knowing what they like, what they don't like, what their strengths are, how they take on information. I think in terms of what you were saying there around like technical information or tactical information. I think if you think about session design, so if we do a warm up, we do an arrival activity, you can still do that. If it's like say a Tuesday after a Sunday game, you might do, because it's a deloading session, you might do some technical work for maybe 10, 15 minutes before then you go into the bigger numbers or some sort of kind of closest to 11 v 11 type game or phase of play. So that'll dictate in terms of what detail you might give. So there's quite a lot of things for people to consider really around the time in the week that you're doing it, the players mood. I know that might sound silly but like if you know somebody's got maybe a tough job or even an easy job right and they come to training with a different kind of energy or a different mood that might indicate you know what maybe I can't give Sarah too much information tonight or and that's why we talk about the check-ins and building relationships so when we do this in youth football as well or we should do that when players arrive at your sessions connect with them ask how they are as your day being what's been happening and you can usually get a lot of information in that split one minute conversation, walking to the pitch that can give you so much information around, right, this is probably going to be the situation tonight or this is the vibe in the squad tonight and that might indicate as well how much information or how much detail you might give somebody. I don't know if that helps, but in terms of like I say, it's definitely knowing your players, but also maybe the environment and the situation and the timing of it as well.
[Louise]
Yeah, definitely really useful things to think about. We've spoken a lot about the importance of understanding your players and catering to their needs. So in your opinion, what do coaches need to understand about adults to coach them effectively? Like what motivates them?
[Sarah]
I think you just said it there Louise in terms of why they're there. So why are they playing in that context? And then that'll give you a lot of information in terms of you'll know how to motivate them. So I think strength of relationships. So generally for me with adults the better the relationship you've got with them and the better your environment is in training and throughout they will work harder. They will listen to what you say. They will give their best efforts. They'll want to do things to impress you and their teammates because the environment's right. So there's a big bit here about environment and this is why when I spoke earlier about just because it's the adult game it doesn't mean that you have to do all the good practice that we talk about in youth football and then forget it when we get to adult environment because there's still people, right? There's still people that want to feel cared by the coach. They want to feel like supported in the environment. They want to feel like they've got value and they can add value to the environment as well. So that's why having really strong relationships with them is really important and to understand a bit about them and to really to tap into that motivation when you're asking them to do things or maybe you want to challenge them or like we spoke about earlier when you're talking about wow you'd be a great mentor for a younger player like what's your thoughts and could we maybe set that up in like a little buddy system or something like that and you know because we've got to use the people that are in front of us as well but it might be quite rewarding for them at the same time so yeah relationships are absolutely key I think.
[Jamie]
Just moving away from the pure practice design and environment side of things to look more at match day planning what does that look like adults What's the difference between match day planning in the open age game compared to youth football?
[Sarah]
Differences is probably the context. So if you're a club that you're trying to get three points, you're trying to win, you're trying to climb the league system, You're probably going to do a little bit more prep around winning potentially and strategies and key players and knowing what your plan might be for a certain opposition because you can control the stuff that you do to an extent with your team. So planning for opposition might be a bit more difficult. We're in the world now where we've got, you know, most things are videoed. We've got camera footage of teams and that might be a way to do it. And you might have some knowledge already about how a certain team plays. So you might look to set up some strategies potentially in the week that's going to help you be successful. What I'd probably say in youth football is shouldn't really matter about that too much. It should just purely be about your players, your squad and their strengths and their weaknesses and how you can help them. Whereas obviously if you think about motivation and why they might be there in adult football, it might be for that because they might want to really compete and they might want to win games and win leagues and things like that. So that's probably the difference that I would say. But other than that, it's pretty similar really in terms of how you'd plan really.
[Jamie]
You mentioned there where there might be a little bit more of an emphasis in how you play and who you may be coming up against. If coaches don't maybe have data or insight maybe available to them on the opposition, how can they still effectively prepare their team for match day would you say?
[Sarah]
So the one thing that you can control is the principles and how you play and the strengths of your team and your players. So I would say if you haven't got any information about the opposition, just do what you're good at and focus on your strengths and focus on the principles that hopefully you've laid down from the start and working towards that and being connected as a squad to do that. So I'd say, yeah, if you haven't got any information about opposition, just focus on you, what your players are good at and just making sure they're absolutely crystal clear on their role, their responsibility, whether they're on the pitch or even off the pitch. So even when you talk about subs, I know that's a bit different in terms of game time in the adult game, potentially. Obviously, we want to opt for equal game time in youth football because everybody's there they deserve equal game time it might look slightly different in the adult game if it is a competitive setting for example where maybe some players aren't going to get game time that's equal so then how do you manage that environment in terms of the subs and their impact and I think that you can do that through that role and responsibility so it might be well you're going to come on and you're going to be a finisher and this is going to be your role that you do when you do come on the pitch and you're giving them real clarity as well so when they're watching the game from the subs bench they go right when I come on at exit point I know exactly what I've got to do and you might just give them that reminder as well before they go on but it's good practice pre-match to actually have that for them, linked to other roles and responsibilities in the team as well.
[Louise]
Do you have any top tips for linking training to matchday?
[Sarah]
Yeah so I'd say that we should see those as not two separate events if we can. Like I say, we get players once or twice in the week, we're preparing them for a match day. If we go back to our principles and what we do and being clear on that, that'll help us stay consistent throughout all our training weeks. And then in terms of linking it to match day I think it's just that slight tweak potentially if you maybe want to prepare for a certain team or a certain opposition so when I talked about that fluidity of maybe some tactics and some strategy so I think the baseline is always the foundation of how you play, your principles, being clear with your players and then there's just that little add-ons really that might change based on the opposition and then also as well I think that sticking to that so let's say that I don't know something happens on a particular match day where let's say you concede from three set pieces don't make all your training about defending set pieces unless it's an absolute need and it's part of your principles to do that. You still want to give the players from a player engagement perspective that everything's not just focused about the mistakes that you made at the weekend because that might demotivate them a little bit. It might be quite important to cover some parts but actually still sticking to their principles and how they play and what they're good at is just as important as addressing some maybe of the mistakes as well. So I think that's how you get that linkage. I think it's keeping a core base level but then also just adding in the tweaks around opposition and maybe some things that you need to cover.
[Jamie]
Sarah you mentioned earlier in one of your answers about there maybe being more of a focus on getting three points when you're in the open age game. And I'm not saying that when you're in youth football that you're not looking for three points. Of course, you want into you want into win, of course. But how can you personally prepare players for the change to a potentially more competitive environment at this age?
[Sarah]
Yeah I would say it's about that that clarity and being clear with the players around what they want their football to be when they get to adult age and do they want to continue into a competitive environment and that might not be for everyone and that's absolutely fine and I think it's been really clear because I think it's really difficult to be both if I'm honest because how you set up and how you approach training and games and the environment and how you might train yourself as a player and how you might prepare might be quite different based on what the context is. So like I say, I think it's really important for coaches to be quite honest about that in terms of what the environment is and what it's not, because that's going to help the players know whether they're in the right place or not and help them with, like you say, that preparation of what to expect and maybe how to be themselves.
[Jamie]
And do you have any advice to potentially help players in that environment to be able to cope with maybe the pressure that that might bring or of course if you're thinking higher up a little bit higher up the pyramid where you might have a crowd watching for instance, how can you help players deal with that pressure?
[Sarah]
So I think the coach's role would be to set the environment where players can come and tell you about that or if maybe they're a little bit nervous or they're maybe they're struggling and I think it's on picking that and that's where that relationship piece comes in in terms of how they're feeling being open to tell you how they feel so then you can find the right support for them and I think for me it's just experience as well and reassuring them sometimes to go right there might be 50, 100 plus however many people watching but actually just focus on what you're good at and if you make a mistake it doesn't matter because we're a team and we're going to make mistakes and we're going to make mistakes as individuals, coaches are going to make a mistake and it's been like a little bit vulnerable I think there is kind of a leader of the group if you like to say that actually that's going to be okay but we'll work through it. So again it's just making sure that you've got that openness that if players do feel like that they can come to you and get that support if it's from you from other players or somebody else in that environment that can help them.
[Louise]
Thinking about all of those kind of preparing people to deal with the pressure and stuff, but also is there something about helping people deal with the disappointment of losing? Do you have any advice that could help our listeners help players to deal with that?
[Sarah]
Yeah, like naturally players will play a game, but any game that you play you probably want to win right? There's going to be a winner and a loser so you know at some point as a coach you might just make that clear like you know there might be games that we lose this season, there might be things or mistakes that happen but again it's just setting the environment that actually if it happens with it that's okay and we'll work on it but it's got to be a collective approach it's not going to be a blaming culture it's not going to be I would never maybe point mistakes out in front of the group maybe if you knew that a player was low in confidence for example and this is why when I talk about I use the four corner model because it's a really good model that you can apply to most things and definitely in the adult game and if you've got a really good knowledge around mapping your players against that four corner model knowing right socially how do they cope psychologically how do they cope and how does everything mix together if you like that will then help you when examples like that happen. So when you win games, when you lose games, when you draw games, when mistakes happen, that's where coaches need to be really considered around who's in the room and who's going to be in front of them and how you approach that. So that would be my advice. It's all about environment. It's all about players understanding. And if you know if a player does make a mistake based on their role and responsibility will help them. So let's say right okay let's look through some clips if we've got video or let's work on some stuff in training and then that again that might be where you set your session up in terms of if you've got say one two three four players that really need to work on something quite specific that might lend itself to the practice design and how you set up training. But try and do it in a way that's actually quite supportive, not that's a blaming or like kind of might embarrass the players. Do it in a way that is keeping the environment positive and supportive rather than singling people out. And, you know, your coach behaviours might change. And like I say, that's what we want. And when I talked about not losing that from youth football that we all advocate for, I think it's the same. It's exactly the same in the adult game as well, because they're still just people at the end of the day.
[Louise]
Yeah, definitely. Would you say that goes along with resilience as well, like building resilience in a team and with players.
[Sarah]
Yeah, exactly. So building resilience, dealing with setbacks, rebuilding their confidence, rebuilding their confidence in each other as well. So if you've noticed that maybe you are losing a few games or some of the group are maybe losing that confidence, well do something that's really going to boost that in training. You know, set up some practices that's really going to boost some confidence and some group work or maybe some individual work that's really going to help them with that because momentum is quite important I think in the adult game as well in terms of addressing the momentum. So you've won a few games. Everybody's really happy. Everything's great. But then what happens when maybe you've lost a few games as well and then how do you manage the environment. So I think my key takeaways in terms of coaching the adult game is to really understand what your environment is and what it's not. If it's competitive if it's not be really clear with the environment to make sure that it's supportive and it's positive and that people have support if they need it. And the third thing is around how you play and be really clear on your roles and responsibilities. So if everybody's clear around that you're clear as the coach that will help the whole process throughout the season when either you win and you lose and then you need to make changes, then that will be the foundation for everything as you go on in the season.
[Louise]
Well, that's really useful and a really good roundup for all the things that we've heard. And that's really helpful. Thinking about how we can kind of pass this on to listeners now to maybe have a go at something. We've been asking people to give a coaching challenge to our listeners. Is there anything that you can think of to challenge our listeners related to what we've spoken about today?
[Sarah]
Yeah, for me, if you're working in the adult game, assess how clear your principles are for the players in terms of what they're doing when they're doing them and their responsibilities and then your challenge is then how can you maximise that in training throughout the whole season so this is what we do these are the roles and responsibilities and then how does your training add up across the season to help them with that and really reflect and analyse on that and you might need to ask your players what they think that is and then that might give you some information and think about use the coaches how you're maybe going to implement that if it's not done already.
[Louise]
Brilliant and as always we'll put like something on the community where people can share what they've done and kind of discuss it between yourselves, give advice, what's worked, what hasn't, it's really good reflection to use other people's insight as well.
[Jamie]
Yeah, definitely encourage people to give that a go and to let us know how that goes. We always enjoy looking at the community to see, yeah, how everything's been going and yeah, it's nice to see people who are listening to this actually giving these challenges a go so please do let us know how you're getting on. Right well we are coming up to the end of the show now but it does mean it is time for our swift session feature.
[Louise]
Yep so once again it's a 30 second challenge And this time we'll be asking you to explain a session idea to us, but you're no stranger to this because you have been on before. So you know the drill. Are you excited to try it again?
[Sarah]
Yeah, let's go. Yeah. Why not?
[Louise]
I'll just set the timer up and when the music starts you can begin.
[Sarah]
Okay so split the group into three teams if you've got a squad of 18, 16 split the squad into three teams if you've got one goalkeeper or two goalkeepers perfect It's a 30 by 40 area, goal at each side, two teams playing in the middle with bounce players on the outside and basically if you score you stay on and then we rotate the three teams. So it's quick fire, one minute to score, if you don't score within the one minute coach decides who goes off and that's it.
[Louise]
Exactly to time. Fantastic. Is there anything else you wanted to add to it now that the time is off or is that it sounded like it was all very succinct but is there anything else?
[Sarah]
Yeah that's it really three team game, loads of goals, short and sharp yeah. Perfect.
[Jamie]
Brilliant well thank you very much for your time again Sarah it's been great to have you on once more onto Coachcast and yeah it's been great hearing your story but also getting your advice into coaching adults. Hopefully you've enjoyed it as well and hopefully listeners that there's plenty for them to be taken away. There certainly was from our perspective. So yeah, thank you very much for your time.
[Sarah]
Oh, thank you both. I've really enjoyed it.
[Jamie]
Brilliant. Thank you very much. Well, we're at the end of another episode Louise, and that was a really good chat with Sarah about coaching adults, what would you say is the highlight that you're taking away from it?
[Louise]
Lots of great highlights and as usual lots of interesting points and thoughts from Sarah. I think one thing that stuck in my mind quite early on was when she spoke about coach the players and not the session. She was talking about the fact that if you use the player needs to lead your session rather than kind of the session that you've written down and hammering that home and making sure everybody sticks to it, it's kind of understanding what everybody needs from the session as well. It's really important.
[Jamie]
Yeah, really good top tip to take away there for everybody. For me, it was kind of almost like the message that I took back was debunking the myth almost that adult football is drastically different from youth football. You know, it's not, it's actually, it is actually similar. Like Sarah was saying, don't abandon your principles from youth football. We want people to stay in the game. We want people to still be in love with the game. There will be differences in terms of maybe people's context of what they're going through their own lives and whatnot but there's still key points around needing to understand your players, you know, creating that right environment for them and just making sure that football is still fun, you know, don't abandon those principles just because it's adult football and you're chasing three points. And I think that was really important message to take away that came out from her answers. It isn't that dissimilar to you football at all. So stick with your principles, make sure it's fun, safe, inclusive for everybody and make sure that you're providing football that's in an environment that's enjoyable. Right, well, that's all we have time for today but don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football Community. This is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.
[Louise]
Yep, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode from all of us at England Football Learning. Thanks for listening.