[Jamie:] 00:00:01.800
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning - the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we’re chatting to the FA’s Clare Daniels and Pete Sturgess
to find out all about the Play Phase and to get their advice for how all adults can play a positive role in creating the best environment for players. Hi, Claire. Hi, Pete. Welcome to the show. How are you both?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:00:32.159
Really good, thanks.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:00:33.240
Yeah, I'm good, thank you.

[Jamie:] 00:00:34.540
That's great to hear.

[Louise:] 00:00:35.600
Thank you both for joining us. It's great to have you on, Claire, for the first time. And welcome back, Pete. So we're going to make a start. And if you could both tell us a little bit about your roles and the part that you've played in the project that Jamie mentioned.
And if we start with you Pete, because I think last time you were on Coachcast you actually gave us a little bit of an introduction into the pilot that's led to Play Phase, didn't you?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:00:59.020
Yes, This has been a bit of a burning passion of mine for a few years now, and we were lucky enough to have the opportunity to run a pilot scheme last year. And from the results of that and the levels of engagement and enjoyment from the children, we knew we were ready to put into the public domain something quite unique, but quite absolutely suitable for our young children.

[Louise:] 00:01:25.760
And how about you, Claire? Can you tell us a little bit about your role in the project?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:01:30.040
Yeah, so I've been lucky enough to work alongside Pete for the entirety of the project and bringing, I guess, the knowledge from the Women and Girls game to really make sure that what we are creating with this philosophy and phase is suitable for all children so that they can experience the game for the very first time and fall in love with something that stays with them for the rest of their lives.

[Jamie:] 00:01:56.979
Well, fantastic. Thank you very much for that. Well, just before we do dive into today's focus, As this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on the way to training right now as they're tuning into this. So we always like to give them some advice at the top of the show.

[Louise:] 00:02:10.199
Yeah, we call this your arrival activity. And it's where we give you 30 seconds to give us as many top coaching tips as you can. And as we've got the subject of this episode, these tips should be based on working with the very youngest players to act as a bit of a preview for what we're gonna chat about. We're gonna go to you, Claire, for this. Are you up for the challenge?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:02:31.620
I am absolutely ready to share all of the tips I can think of for those four to six year olds to get you guys ready for activity on the pitch. Perfect.

[Louise:] 00:02:39.860
Well, we'll set 30 seconds upon o'clock and when the music begins you can start. Time starts now.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:02:49.900
Okay, so with any session let's make sure we kick start with a warm-up that gets their bodies and mind ready for play, but let's embody that with an imaginative theme so that those kids can really do what they are great at, which is imaginative play.
We also need to remember that these kids need to develop their fine and gross motor skills. So use objects as creatively as you can. And when we introduce them to matches, let's go small. 2v2.

[Louise:] 00:03:20.740
Unfortunately, time's up. I don't want to break in, but the time's up. Shall we just continue and you can tell us the rest of your tips because it sounded like it was leaving something.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:03:28.740
Yeah, just that last one in terms of making sure that our youngest children are exposed to a format that's right for their age and stage. So go the smallest that we can, which is 1v1s and 2v2s, so that we're giving them the best chance to build a relationship with the game for life.

[Louise:] 00:03:47.420
Perfect - little bit over, but that's fine. We got there and it was good stuff.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:03:51.180
Yeah, it's the first time you can give me some flexibility, right?

[Jamie:] 00:03:54.140
Exactly, exactly. Well, let's dive into the show, shall we? And we kind of briefly touched at it right at the start in the intro, but the question that a lot of people will be really wanting us to ask is, what is the Play Phase?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:04:06.420
I think we're really lucky as a nation that we have literally thousands and thousands of young children who engage with football in lots of different ways from a very early age.
We also live in a society that recognizes that being active, playing sport and keeping fit and healthy can lead to a long and happy life. If we have children joining our football communities we want to ensure that this first experience is positive, memorable and absolutely appropriate for their age and stage of development.
We believe that in creating our Play Phase approach, we can deliver on all three of these things and help children fall in love with being active and playing sport for the long term. Our Play Phase approach really places the child not football at the centre and although this might sound a bit strange at first, if we can work effectively with the children, we can release whatever potential they might have and for lots of those children that might be going on to play football at whatever level they eventually gravitate towards. So we want all of our children to enjoy being active, being with friends, feeling as though they're improving and hopefully this will set them up for the rest of their lives so that they remain participants in football but also that they recognize the importance of staying fit and healthy for the rest of their lives.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:05:30.320
And just to build on that as Pete's articulated the Play Phase it's more than just a phase it's a philosophy and it's got a really distinct feel for when you come to it. It's not going to look like a traditional session, but it's giving the real building blocks as Pete said, around physical activity and football coming second in this stage for these kids, where they can gain confidence and develop a really positive sense of self. Because if they don't feel confident in who they are, they won't stay in sport, let alone stay in football. We can help and support them to create strong relationships with other children and we all know how much that's been impacted from the COVID pandemic and how children struggle to interact with each other. And through play, they can start to understand their own emotions, whether they are good ones or bad ones, being able to recognize them and control them, and giving them skills not just for football, but for life. And with that, they can then start to become really critical thinkers and problem solvers, which is what excellent players of the game are able to do, solve problems quickly and make decisions. And most importantly, they're going to be able to develop better control over their bodies. Because if they can move effectively and efficiently and be really competent and confident with that, when you add a ball, they're going to find it much easier than doing that the other way around.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:06:53.860
It's a really good point, Clare, because if you've got children engaging with football from the age of four, five or six, no one can predict who the best footballers are going to be. But all children of that age need to be able to move confidently and efficiently, as Claire has quite rightly said. So our programme embraces the fact that this is for all children. It just happens to be great preparation for football if they actually end up choosing football as their main sport.

[Louise:] 00:07:25.440
And how did this project come about?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:07:27.340
We've had our foundation phase in place for a number of years now, and Pete's championed and spearheaded that piece of work but what's happened is that children are joining the game younger and younger and our coaches are providing training but you know we've recognised that we need to give them something different. These children are four and five and their needs and their development needs are very different from that of a six-year-old. So it's about us as a national governing body giving our cohort of coaches and volunteers the right information to give those youngest children the best start that they can possibly have in the game.

[Jamie:] 00:08:05.020
You kind of touched on kind of the importance of it, but just want to clarify what are kind of like the outcomes that we want to achieve by the Play Phase?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:08:13.980
Gain confidence, create relationships, really great at moving their bodies, getting a really basic understanding of the game and basically giving them the foundation to move into the foundation stage.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:08:28.140
I think it's important that in developing them physically, we can impact on other areas like their social and emotional development as well. And that comes through the philosophy that and the approach that we are asking the people, the adults involved in this to adopt. So we don't just want activities or a philosophy that just helps children kick the ball better or more effectively. What we want, and this is where working in partnership with child development specialists, we've been able to develop a framework that if the adults involved in this approach really begin to embrace it, we will get physical development, emotional development, cognitive development, and we will get children not only prepared for football, but if they're entering school, we hopefully give them confidence in their own abilities. And I think that almost fully rounded approach is one of the key elements of this approach.

[Louise:] 00:09:35.140
Before the show, I know we were talking and you mentioned that in Play Phase, coaches aren't actually referred to as coaches. They're called captains of play. Why is that and what is their role?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:09:47.800
We've already got thousands of adults who volunteer in our grassroots game and they are the foundations that we build the whole of our pyramid upon. So they give so much time and commitment to working with these young players. The captain of play idea comes from, and I think these people are gonna emerge as really critical components and elements of this whole philosophy, because their approach will help us bring this whole program to life, but they're going to need to have slightly different qualities and abilities and a different outlook from what you might consider your traditional football coach. So I know that lots of parents would volunteer with their grassroots team because their son or daughter wants to be involved in a team. Some of those people will have lots of knowledge about football, some will have very little and will almost be learning on the job. We want to just put that to one side regarding your football knowledge. We want to concentrate on the characteristics and those personal attributes that you would bring when you're working with the children. So we want people who are enthusiastic, smile a lot, really show on a regular basis how much they enjoy working with and being with the children. And I think it's this quality that will really allow us to bring this approach to life.

[Louise:] 00:11:15.780
It sounds like an exciting role.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:11:17.720
I think for some people who may not think, you know what, I can't really contribute to the development of our young children, because I don't play sport, I don't know football, I'm not really going to be suited to this role. We need a different approach. And Claire outlined it perfectly when she talked about the approach will demand that we involve the children more, we get to ask them more questions, we work off their responses, We're really flexible in taking the session and the activities in a different direction because it's been driven by the children.
Now, none of those things are related to how much I know about football. It's almost my ability, my personal qualities to be able to work in that way, because we think in doing that, it's going to bring out and release as much potential as we can for every child, whether they go on to play football or not. But just the whole cognitive development, the neural development about getting them to think and to plan and to come with their ideas. We want this to be a vibrant environment for learning.

[Jamie:] 00:12:28.040
The Play Phase, as you said, is for our very youngest players, you know, those at four to six. I just want to ask Claire, what will parents and carers expect to see from the session and what would we suggest sessions to look like for this age group?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:12:40.640
So I think you're going to see something that doesn't look like your traditional session that you would see in a foundation stage. You're going to see the children highly motivated and really enjoying what they're doing, because what's being provided is going to be really age appropriate and an environment that reflects that stage of development.
So how do you get that motivation and enjoyment?
Well, it's about providing lots of different activities, activities that might include free play and using their imagination to find solutions to solve problems in terms of moving over, under and around equipment. It may be having a voice and choice in terms of what activities they would like to play or having a game, for example, like an obstacle course that they've played on a previous week with tunnels and beanbags and tug of war that they absolutely love and asking for that same activity all based on those fundamental movements of pulling and pushing which helps develop that core strength which is so important when we look to develop agility and the ability to move with the ball later down the line.
And they have real autonomy in terms of who they are and how they choose to engage in the activity that's provided. And by that I mean each child is going to engage in a different way. So if they've got, for example, a beanbag which they're choosing to throw, some kids might choose to take themselves away on their own and hold that beanbag still and just do small catches.
Whereas you'll have another child that is really maybe more excitable, who's throwing it up in the air as high as they possibly can and not having any idea where that beanbag's going to land. But they're engaging in their way based on where they are in their development and having fun that's not been conditioned by an adult. And they'll be doing lots of activities where they're learning to collaborate and work together because you can't assume a skill like that is naturally something that just happens. You've got to provide the opportunity through games for children to learn how to collaborate and what it means to listen and respond, but also being able to understand their emotions when they start to learn to compete.
And like we've said in the top tips in my 30 seconds which I ran over with, you're going to see really small formats of the game because children have to learn to play the game. You can't assume that just because you're going to say it's a match that kids know how to do that.
So that introduction to match play will be scaffolded with 1v1s and 2v2s on very small pitches with small goals, with lots of balls being rolled in to give those children the opportunity to have as many goes at the games as possible.

[Jamie:] 00:15:30.400
I just want to follow up from that, Claire. So I'm just thinking, putting myself in the shoes of a parent or carer, I mean, it sounds really exciting. You're talking about beanbags, you're talking about obstacles. As a parent who's maybe brand new to all of this, doesn't know what a Play Phase session is meant to look like. If they're seeing all this thinking, well, this doesn't look like football, does it matter that it doesn't look like football at this age for the Play Phase?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:15:56.000
No, it doesn't, because we've got to help the children, as we said before, be able to confidently and competently move their bodies. And that is a skill in itself. And as these children continue to grow, they have to continue to learn how to move, how to change direction, how to balance, how to throw, how to catch. And if that in itself for one of our youngest children, that's really tough. You ask, you think about a four year old, you ask them to balance on one leg, the most likelihood is that they're gonna fall on the floor or you ask them to jump and it might just be that they go onto their tiptoes. And this is really key and really important because if a child is still learning and hasn't mastered moving their body, if you add a ball on top of that, you're limiting the potential that they have as a footballer. Because if I can't balance effectively, I can't strike the ball, I can't pass the ball as effectively as I would do if I'd mastered balancing on my left and my right foot. And core strength, if you've not mastered balancing your core strength, learning to change direction is really hard, but learning to change direction with a ball is then even harder.
So we wanna give them the best opportunity that we can So when they are given the ball, they are able to form a relationship with the ball and they love it. And football is their game of choice because they've been through a phase of learning which has set them up for the future. And that involves both things, moving the body and learning to move with objects that aren't just footballs.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:17:36.420
The whole reasoning behind this programme was our desire to produce more skilful players. And we thought, well, when you're very, very young, because we don't know whether you're going to go on to be one of those skillful players, what value added can we have for all children? And so the program is for all children of all shapes and sizes, for children of all levels of ability. And one of the qualities of the captain of play will be to work with the children at where they're at, trying to take them to where their potential might allow them to go. But because we aligned it very much with skillful players, all of the things that Claire spoke about in being able to move your body effectively, but more critically, make really good decisions and be flexible in your decision making, That doesn't start when you're 14, 15 or 16 years of age and you're trying to work out tactics or whatever. We can actually start that process off. We can involve the children to an extent where we're already getting them to think in a very flexible and adaptable way. And in involving the children in this way, levels of engagement we are hoping are going to really increase. And this is all part of that involvement where you think, you know what, being active, going to these Play Phase sessions is a really great thing to do. And then that sets the foundations for the rest of their life.
We know that children begin to make decisions really early on about, I like this, I don't like that. And so if we do give them a really positive and memorable introduction right at the beginning to being active, I think there's a better chance that the children are going to stay active for the rest of their lives.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:19:33.400
And just to build on that slightly further, we're helping through Play Phase, not only to develop your child in sport, but your child in their wider life and in their early education at school. There's so many things that are built into this that are transferable. Becoming an effective learner, an effective learner at home, at school, and in sport, that's a fantastic skill to have to develop that personal, social, and emotional development. Again, it's multi-setting. It's multi-appropriate. To support that communication and language development, we've already spoken about, you know, children being impacted from COVID and struggling to communicate with other children. If you can communicate In sport, again, that transfers, but more importantly, as they transfer through the pathway, they're able to, because they've been given the agency and the autonomy, they'll be able to share and articulate skills, tactics, and strategies for the game from their perspective. So they're really owning sport and owning their journey and their learning and I think that's why it's so all encompassing and so important that we all get behind this Play Phase.

[Louise:] 00:20:40.120
I think it's really interesting what you've said there and the key thread through a lot of that is enjoyment and engagement for children. So what signs could people look out for to see that their kids are really starting to engage with the Play Phase?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:20:56.200
I think for me the first one is, and we've seen it in the pilot, is the kids asking, when can I go to the session? Is it the save for the session again? They love it. They look forward to it. And it becomes the highlight of their week. So before they've even got there, that's what they're focusing on. The session finishes. And the next day, is it time to go to Play Phase again? Is it time to go? Am I going to see such and such? That's when you know it's really embedded into your child.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:21:23.200
The ones that burst through the door or burst through the gates of the school, leaving mum or dad behind and rushing over to the coach, you've already got signs that there's something special going on here. Because when children adopt someone else as that secondary attachment figure, there are lots of signs and signals that they feel secure, they are happy and content, they feel involved in how this person connects and engages with them. We had one child who went to bed the night before in his kit so that when he got up in the morning he was ready. But it can come in different ways because if the children talk about the session afterwards, about even if it's I enjoyed this, I wasn't so sure about that or I didn't really enjoy that, what they've done, they've engaged fully with the session. If the captains of play also engage them and involve the children, we want the children to come up with the ideas that take the sessions in different directions.
So we want the parents to encourage the children, did you come up with any ideas? Did someone have a good idea? Did the coach try your idea? Because I know we spoke about it in the car on the way here. All of those things, for me, are indicators of levels of engagement and enjoyment.
But they might come in very obvious forms, but they also might come in very subtle forms. So as a parent, just be observant and just put on that radar, so that you're picking up on all of these signals.

[Louise:] 00:22:59.340
And I suppose to lead on to that, just so we've got some points that people can take away from this. How can parents and carers support their child before, during and after Play Phase session?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:23:10.540
I think this depends on lots of things and this includes both the personality of the child and the personality of the of the parents or the carers. If you've chosen the Play Phase to be the starting point for your child's sporting or football involvement, some children may want to analyze how things went, what went well, what they didn't do well, even at quite a young age. But you also have a huge number of children who have, as soon as the session is over, they will already have forgotten about that. They'll have compartmentalized it and they'll be ready to move on to the next bit. So I think the one thing that parents should be wary of doing is, A] asking too many questions, because in the drive to or from the sessions, I would just be relaxed. And if the child started talking about it, then that's when I would engage with it. But I certainly wouldn't be overpowering or applying any kind of pressure to the child to talk about it, to tell me what they were going to do great today, because there's too many unknowns. And so just be really relaxed about it, but try to choose the opportunities where from the child, you can begin to ask the odd question or to just probe a little bit deeper.
I think that almost hands-off approach is going to be more productive than one that, you know, tell me about this, tell me about that.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:24:35.660
I think you've also got another opportunity as a parent to really create some memorable experiences with your child, to be able to stand back and watch and see your child immerse in something that they absolutely love. Seeing that together, because you know our Play Phase parents are there every session, you've got memories together as a family and things you can share.
So if you see that your child absolutely loves one of the activities, you might be able to go and replicate it together, throwing and catching in the garden, rolling, playing a tug of war with a dressing gown tie. You know, you can build memories for life with your child around this programme. And the other thing I'd say is don't worry if you don't see too much football. It's more beneficial for your child in the long term to be moving around, to be using a variety of objects, rather than worrying at four and five that are they going to be a footballer? Am I making sure they've got enough contact time with the football at their feet? That potentially becomes detrimental to that long-term journey that we're all aspiring for with our skilful players.
So just be relaxed, don't worry, there's no rush. A Child develops for a long, long time. So you've got a long journey. And this is a special phase where memories can be created for both parent and child for life.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:25:57.540
That's prompted two thoughts with me, Claire. The first one is that it's really important that for the parent, they notice any successes that the children have. So if you're a parent that stands on the touch line, looking at your mobile phone or scrolling through your Facebook, You may miss that one thing that in the car the child wants to talk about. So it's, I know it's a long time, 45 minutes, because the sessions are slightly shorter. It's a long time to give your child your full attention, but if you really want to support them and catch them doing something special, we really want you to be attentive for as much of that time as you can. So that's the first point.
The second one is related to Claire's point about don't worry that if you don't see as much football as you might in a traditional session. All of the sessions will include football, but it'll be 2v2. So it's almost like a short, intensive burst of football activity where three, four, or maximum five children will have lots of opportunities to touch the ball, to make some decisions, to kick it, to work in collaboration with a teammate. Those short intensive periods build upon all of the other activities that will surround it, all the movement activities, all the throwing activities, all the different object play that children have.
So we're almost blasting them in lots of different ways and then saying, right, now try to apply this when the challenge is keeping a ball on a pitch with three other children.
And part of the role of our captains of play is that, and we saw this during the pilot, If the ball went out of play, which it is likely to do a lot when the children are four, five, and six years of age, we had four children running off the pitch going to fetch it because they really want to be near the ball and touching the ball. So one of the things that was almost an eye-opener for the captains of play was to tell them to have a ball under each arm so that when the ball went out of play, the children immediately knew there was another ball going to be introduced so that the game could continue. So we are not neglecting the football bit. What we're doing is almost including it in some other fabulous activities that we know the children need in order to be successful when they apply it to football.

[Jamie:] 00:28:30.040
So you've just talked about how parents and carers can support their child then in a Play Phase session, but how can parents and carers support the captains of play?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:28:39.860
As a parent when you come to these sessions, the first thing that you need to do is also adopt the philosophy and be respective of that and become part of the environment that our captains of play are going to be creating. So you know that might mean you're asked to become an active participant in that session which could be rolling balls in for 2v2s, because there'll be lots of 2v2 pitches out on the pitch. It could be that you're asked to share a special moment with your child and do some throwing and catching. So you could be involved, you could be observing, but most importantly, you're there for your child. So that's why we ask for the parents to stay on site for the whole session and to support the role with bathroom trips before, during and after the session. And that's really important that you're there for your child to help them in that instinct.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:29:34.840
I think there's an education piece for the parents because I think we're all in danger of being locked into thinking this is what a football or coaching session must or should look like, but it needs the adults to buy into it, as Claire has said, and support it at every turn so that we maximise the development for the time that we've got the children.

[Louise:] 00:30:00.060
Brilliant. So if we move our focus slightly now, all the advice so far has been aimed at those who have a child in Play Phase, but we thought it'd be good to get some insight for those who have kids that are older than six as well. So first, in your opinion, what is the role of a parent or carer during training and match day?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:30:20.660
For me it's really simple, it's to support the journey of your child from the perspective of that child. So not putting pressure on, not asking questions that focus on results, but really developing shared memories that you can look back on and celebrate together as that child gets older. It doesn't matter whether you win or whether you lose, it's the fact that your child has fallen in love with sport and that in itself should be celebrated because of the, I guess, the long-term benefits that has both physically and mentally for your child as they grow and develop and evolve into an adult?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:31:04.840
I know as a parent of four children, there is a normal trajectory of development for children as soon as they're born. So that line is given. What you find with most children is that they're at any given point, they are above that line or below it. But if I've heard parents saying, oh yeah, my daughter was walking at 18 months, I shouldn't feel bad that my daughter wasn't walking, you know, until she was two years. It shouldn't matter. My child is on their trajectory and my job is not to force it if they're behind or to gloat or to take my foot off the pedal if they're ahead of the curve at that time. What you find is that most children will pretty much find their own way. My job as a parent is to support them as they find their own way and navigate their way through physical development, social development, cognitive development, the whole lot. What we want you to recognize is my son or daughter is really good at that. So we're going to accentuate that, we're going to work on that, and if they're really motivated, we're going to give them more of that. I think what you have to do is show patience and encouragement and offer praise and support so that your child can respond in the most positive way to any areas of their development.
I think we've got to be a lot more forgiving for our children, but know when to challenge, when to take your foot off the pedal, when to motivate, when to not say anything. I think these are really important skills without me coming on here and telling anyone how to parent their children.

[Louise:] 00:32:46.080
Do you think it's different like depending on whether they're observing training or a match day? Do you think it's different between the two ways you'd approach things?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:32:54.400
We are not assessing the children as to whether they're an A, B or a C when you're observing. What we're seeing is do they mix with their friends? Do they go and speak to somebody straight away? Is there a real conversation going on? You know, and it might be that you slowly move over and you listen into that conversation. This is the kind of overall development that we want for our children. It's not just how many goals they scored or how many times they dribbled the ball, it's so much broader than that and if the parents or carers listening to this, if they take only one message away then please, please, please let's embrace the holistic development of all of our children.

[Jamie:] 00:33:37.340
What questions should parents and carers be asking the coach before a session or a match then? So you've talked about how to observe the players, but how can they actually interact with the coach on training or match day?

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:33:50.860
I am going to answer this but I'm going to answer it in a roundabout way. I would make sure that every parent or carer or adult involved knew very clearly and consistently what my philosophy was. My role then is to communicate that effectively and repeatedly to the parents. I think if you do that, you can actually reduce the kind of questions that come in. So once parents and carers know what you stand for and what your approach is, I think they're going to be your checking mechanism to how well you're doing that. And I think that is a better way of approaching it than trying to answer lots of questions because they're unclear about you or your approach.

[Jamie:] 00:34:34.860
And Claire, how can parents and carers support coaches further then?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:34:39.520
So it goes back to that point about being curious and if you don't understand or don't make assumptions that it means X, Y, and Z.
So if you think there's no football in the session, ask why, and it will come back to putting their child at the heart of the development and their learning journey. And that'll be the same whether you move up to an under 10s and under 16s. It will be about what is right for that young person at that moment in time. And if you don't put yourself in the shoes of the coach, you make assumptions. But if we have a really collaborative environment where our coaches and our captains of play can communicate effectively with our parents, those sorts of questions can be answered easily, which stops anything spiralling out of control. But that takes time to build relationships like that and those relationships are built on trust. That has to go both ways. So the behaviours of the coach have to respect the parents, the parents behaviour needs to respect that of the coach and the players and that environment will then ensure what I've just articulated can happen.

[Louise:] 00:35:50.000
If parents or carers disagree with the coach, say for instance around playing time or positions or even the style of play, how would you recommend they approach this with the coach?

[Clare Daniels:] 00:36:00.100
I think that comes down to the individual relationship that they have and everybody will have a different relationship and a different way of communicating. But however you approach it, is just take the time to consider how you pose your question. So that it's not attacking and it's constructive because whenever it's your own child, you know, I'm proud of my children and we all have a belief around the role that our child should play. So it's just taking the time to let emotions dissipate and ask the question in the right way to develop your understanding around the choices and decisions that another person has made.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:36:46.080
I think if you're really clear with your philosophy, you're going to reduce the number of difficult interactions with parents, as you've just described. If you've set out right at the start of the season or your time with the players that you want to involve everybody. As a parent, I would be looking at that to see, are you involving everybody as much as you set out to? But sometimes, this is where involving the players, if that starts when you're four, and you're being asked for your ideas and for your own thoughts, you've gone through a whole process, hopefully, of finding out what's important for you, how to communicate it to others, how to present a clear argument, so that when you are asked when you're 14, you actually feel confident enough to give your opinion and to back it up if you're asked to. I think if the relationship is a really strong one between parents and the coach, I think you've got a much better chance of, as a group of people, I'm going to call it a team, but for me, it's a group of people who are all trying to provide an environment that allows the children, the adolescents, the teenagers to be their best when they are playing football. I think the stronger that is the better. I can't see any other way of it being as productive.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:38:09.180
And as Pete said previously, so you know you think about your pack of top trumps that you get, they're all different, none of them are exactly the same, and they all play a role, and they all have an impact on the environment and the experience. And that difference and contribution is what makes teams unique. And that team extends to the parent with the coach to help develop and evolve these young people into who they want to be. And if those moments are shared at the youngest point and the parent can feel and see how their interaction is contributing to that child's development but also their interaction with their coach. I think we're going to be in a really good place in a few years' time for the future of our young people.

[Louise:] And finally, it's really interesting hearing all of those points, but taking everything we've already talked about into account, what are the key messages that you want people to take away from this episode?

[Clare Daniels:] For me, Play Phase it's more than just a phase, it's a philosophy. A philosophy that the parents and the children and the coaches all need to be on board with for real difference to happen. Because if you can, your child is going to develop a whole plethora of different skills that are transferable, not just in football and sport, but in their wider life.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:39:27.180
We've deliberately used the term Play Phase, because when children play, the adults are almost absent, or certainly not the key important figures in the play. They can be at some point, but when children play together, it is about them collaborating, discussing, negotiating, working things out themselves, coming up with their own ideas. Everything revolves around them. I think if we can capture that in the way that our captains of play deliver, promote and embrace this philosophy, I think we're on to something quite special.

[Jamie:] 00:40:07.040
Well, Claire, Pete, thank you very much for your time today. We've heard so many great tips and then insight into the Play Phase. It's been fantastic having you on, Claire, for the first time and Pete for the third appearance. Hopefully you've enjoyed it and got all your key messages across.

[Clare Daniels:] 00:40:23.400
Thanks for having us.

[Pete Sturgess:] 00:40:24.620
Thanks, Jaime. Really enjoyable and we want total buy-in from the whole football community for this Play Phase approach.

[Jamie:] 00:40:32.640
Right, thank you very much.
Well, that was a really good discussion with Claire and Pete, and we got a real good detailed view into the Play Phase and plenty of advice for listeners, both coaches or captains of play, and parents and carers to take away. But what would you say is the main message that you're taking away from this episode, Louise?

[Louise:] 00:40:52.580
I think it's just the kind of the real focus on enjoyment and the openness of skills that they want children to learn from that age. And that it shouldn't all be focused on football but it is about development.

[Jamie:] 00:41:06.140
Yeah it's kind of a similar thing for me in terms of like you know for parents and carers who are watching maybe they're new to the Play Phase and they don't know about it at the moment that don't be worried if it doesn't look like football. So you might turn up and as Claire was mentioning, you might be playing with beanbags. It might be a bit of an obstacle course. There is a reason for this, which is for those development of core skills that they will need later on in their journey. But the main thing is fun development, getting those core skills. But just, you know, so in that case, just don't worry if it doesn't always look like football at this age for four to sixers.
Right, well, that is all we have time for today. But don't forget to check out the episode description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you will be able to click through to the England Football Community. And this is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.

[Louise:] 00:41:56.260
Yeah, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions. So please do go and check it out.
We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.