Transcripts produced by Supertranslate.beta

[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to Debbie Barry, an FA physical education Officer to discover her journey so far and to get her insight into practice design, understanding individuals and preparing players for competitive environments. Hi Debbie, welcome to the show. How are you?

[Debbie]
I'm good, thank you. Massive podcast fan, so pleasure to be here. So thanks for having me.

[Jamie]
Oh, fantastic. It's great to have you.

[Louise]
Yeah, really good to have you on for the first time. Shall we start by finding out a bit about your role? Could you paint a picture for us what it is that you do?

[Debbie]
Yeah, so I'm a PE and coach development officer. So basically I support training teachers, primary, secondary PE and also grassroots coaches through courses, CPD, things like that and a lot more, but that's kind of the main focus of the role.

[Louise]
Lovely, thanks for that.

[Jamie]
Yeah, brilliant. Well, just before we kind of dive in and discover more about yourself and your experiences, as this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on the way to training right now while tuning into this, so we always like to give them some great advice at the top of the show.

[Louise]
Yeah we'll call this your arrival activity so give you a chance to warm up and get into the swing of things. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna give you 30 seconds and we'll ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can in those 30 seconds. Are you up for the challenge?

[Debbie]
I am up for the challenge, let's go! Okay,

[Louise]
when the music starts you can begin.

[Debbie]
So plan in advance and don't be afraid to bring the session with you, stick it in your pocket. I would say Have a good feed before you go, get some coffee, arrive early, set those standards, be visible, check the equipment, say hello, check in with other coaches, members of staff, greet your players as they come in, set up whenever you can so that you're ready to go as soon as the session starts.

[Jamie]
Look at that, excellent.

[Louise]
Speed through them as well and they were really good. Didn't even need a whistle at the end.

[Jamie]
I'd say yeah, did it very easily.

[Debbie]
That's a lot more stressful when the music's playing.

[Jamie]
Right well we'll dive into the main section of the show which is all about you. And we always start this by asking what was your first experience of football like?

[Debbie]
Well according to my family my first steps included kicking a ball. So I could say it was really quite early on. My dad is a massive football fan, my uncle's massive fans and my second cousin played professional football. He actually partnered Southgate for Crystal Palace during the infamous Canton of Kung kick. So yeah, he was playing in that game. So yeah, a lot of my earliest memories were going to games, Northern Ireland, local Irish League games like that. And yeah, I suppose that was where it all started.

[Louise]
So lots of kind of influence from your family as well as kind of just being born to do it perhaps.

[Debbie]
Perhaps, but yeah, no definitely big influence from the family and then I suppose even in primary school I was playing every break, every lunch and it's that typical story I'm sure many females my age will say, the only girl playing with the boys in the boys teams and things like that. But I was quite fortunate because I was accepted pretty early on in that environment. We had a really strong school team. Some of the boys went on to play at a high level and one of them went on to play Man City Academy and had a career in football. So yeah, I was quite lucky to play with those guys and yeah, that competitive environment and yeah, it really just went from there I suppose.

[Louise]
Lovely, so surrounded by it and all spaces. Absolutely. So if we think about it in terms of coaching, when did your interest in coaching start and how did you get involved?

[Debbie]
I suppose being a player, players are quite selfish and coaching was never on my radar really until a few years ago. So I went to Liverpool for uni and did an undergrad degree in sports science and one of the afternoons Liverpool Football Club came in and did a disability session with us. At the end of the session they said, you know, if anyone's interested, we have opportunities available, come and chat to us and we'll see what we can do. And I'm probably not that forward, so I have no idea why, but I plucked up the courage, totally went out of my comfort zone and went up to the front and was like, what are these opportunities? I'd love to get involved. And it just started from an exchange of emails and ended up doing some voluntary work for them in schools and community clubs, working with like under nine girls and yeah, that was really kind of my first experience of coaching. It was amazing. I got all the kit, even though I'm a massive Man United fan. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. But yeah, I had all the Liverpool kit. They were really good to me. Put me through my old level one qual. But at that stage, there wasn't really, you know, as a job, as a full-time profession, I didn't see anyone, any females certainly managing or coaching and I think even playing wasn't professional or it was really in its infancy. So it was just never on my radar and that's why I decided at the time that I would stay and do my PGCE and that's how I kind of got into teaching but it was just from there really.

[Jamie]
How did you find your experiences with Liverpool SE coming in, that experience but then also teaching as well, what was your first experiences like?

[Debbie]
It was quite difficult. I did a little bit of youth work and you know I've always loved working with young people and children and I suppose from a teaching and then a delivery point of view, it was the unknown and it was actually, I don't really, I don't know what I'm doing here. This is quite nerve wracking. I've got all these little faces looking at me expecting so much, but it was good because I had good people around me. They could show me the ropes and that was really important, especially early on was seeing how other people did things. And then it was just a case of practice and trying out new things, being reflective, what worked, what didn't. And yeah, it takes a long time. And even today, we always say, don't lose that love of learning because we can always improve with what we do. But yeah, certainly in those early days it was quite a challenge, but I learned to love it really, really quickly.

[Jamie]
Do you have any top tips to help people who are in that situation where they're just starting the very first coaching session, what would you say to them?

[Debbie]
I would say just to go for it, just be brave, put yourself out there, try and build up relationships early doors, I think that's most important. Have a little bit of a read, maybe go to CPD courses and just try and further your knowledge that way. So you have a bit of an idea, plan something in advance. Obviously plans don't always work. We know what working with humans is like. It's very unpredictable. But having a skeleton plan at least is really helpful, but also having a good support network, engaging with others who are interested in the same things so you can share ideas and bounce off each other. But having that support network is really vital early on.

[Louise]
Do you think any of your playing experience have influenced the way that you coach or teach?

[Debbie]
Yes, I think as a player, so after primary school and having all of that experience, I joined a women's team at 13 and played Open Age at 13, which is crazy whenever you think about it. I think about the girls in the academy now who are 13 and there's no way that would happen. But that was what we did at the time, but from a development point of view and for me, I really enjoyed it. So played open age and then got invited to under 17 Northern Ireland camps and So I was always, you know, things were always very competitive, you know, that environment winning, I enjoyed it. So certainly at the start of my teaching and my coaching career, I suppose, that's what I thought, you know, That was the route that we had to go down and learn very quickly that that's not maybe the most appropriate thing to do, thankfully, with all the education out there now. So certainly at the start it was things were in my head had to be really competitive and we had to go out to win. But actually working with young people, development is so important because everyone is at a different level, different experiences, they learn differently. So yeah, especially from a teaching background as well, you've got 30 in your class, different levels again. And certainly whenever I was teaching PE, I found out very quickly that not everyone wanted to be there. So, you know, you could engage your five or six, but what about the rest? So that really helped in terms of practice design and coming up with lessons that suited everyone and then taking that into coaching. It was quite easy I suppose to put my teaching hat back on and rein things back in, you know, think, well actually, yes, they all want to be there and they want to know how I can make them better. And so again, in terms of practice design, how can I help develop the individuals? Winning is a bonus. Of course, it's important. That's why we love football, that's why we love sport and play, but it's not the be all and end all.

[Louise]
Yeah. And do you think flipping that on the other side, do you think it's impacted how you played the game? Like knowing from the coaching side of it and teaching?

[Debbie]
Certainly, whenever I started coaching a couple of years ago and I was playing at the same time it definitely made me better, made me more aware of other aspects of the game and in terms of my game understanding. I was a left winger and an attacker so that's all I really cared about was attack and scoring and assisting. Didn't really care about defence and just wanted them to get the ball off to us. But certainly coaching, you have to have that. You need to think about the game as a whole and defensive security and things like that. So definitely that made me think a lot more of that side of the game. I've done e-bills, I played a little bit in the first team and then I was like a player coach with the development squad And Amanda, who's technical director at the moment, she was coaching and she said, Debbie, I need you to play defensive midfield. I have never played there in my life. This could be an absolute disaster. And you know, it was a disaster at times because I didn't know what I was doing half the time, but certainly from my coaching experience I had a little bit of knowledge and that understanding of my role and responsibility and just not quick enough to be a winger anymore, but how could I use the other things that I've learned to impact the game from that side of things. But so yeah, definitely coaching and playing I think goes hand in hand. Yeah.

[Jamie]
Thinking back to coaching now, what would you say you enjoy most about it?

[Debbie]
Working with the players, you know, building up that rapport with them and those relationships and making them better and seeing their success. That doesn't necessarily mean scoring at the weekend or, you know, yes it's great to see something tactical come off in a game, but just that success and development of them as young people, you know, them growing and maturing and maybe becoming a better teammate and maybe developing more resilience. So I love working with the players from that side of things, but also coaching in a team. We all wear the same badge, so it's almost like a, you know, it's quite a family feel, maybe dysfunctional family at times, but certainly we all have that end goal and we're all there for the same reason, you know, the passion and love for the club that we're working with. So I think it's just as important to build up those relationships with other coaches to learn and develop. And it's all about, I don't know, decision making and trying to solve a problem and yeah, so I love kind of being part of that structure as well.

[Jamie]
So you've given us a little bit of insight so far into your playing, coaching and teaching roles, but can you give us a little bit more insight into the journey that you've taken to get to the role that you've got today?

[Debbie]
Yeah, so I'll say, obviously I had experience in the U17 Northern Ireland camps. I remember them sitting us down, they said, grab a ball, sit in the ball, we're going to choose our squad for the upcoming Euros or whatever it was. We're going to call your name, come up to the front and that's fine. So we all sat in the ball. You know where you get this sinking feeling in your stomach, and it's looking around, everyone's getting up and I was left on the ball. So my name wasn't called for that squad and actually from that moment I didn't play 11-a-side football until my mid-twenties. So I'd kind of lost the love of playing, still played a lot of hockey and you know other other sports so I was still involved in that but in terms of football kind of lost that love but was always a fan still. So still going to games and match the day and you know, I still love that. But I think it took me a long time to really get that love of playing and being involved certainly in that aspect. And it wasn't until I was teaching in Doncaster that I was asked, do you want to come and observe an RTC at the time session with the Bells? And that really changed everything for me and I suppose it really, that was the spark. And I arrived at the session and I had never seen so many girls in one place playing. You know they were all in the same kit. There was two coaches at every age group, there was medical staff, there was a tech director, club manager, it was the backdrop of the Donny Rovers Stadium at the Eco-Par. I was just looking around and I was like, wow, this is amazing. There's other female coaches, you can see it, you can be it, you know that great saying. So that really sparked things for me and I thought I need to get involved and if I have to work hard and if I have to do extra things or travel for more knowledge and get qualifications or whatever it was, I'd be prepared to do that. And then I was quite fortunate that a job had come up as an assistant in one of the younger age groups and got that role and I'm still there today, but with the under 16s. So from a coaching point of view, that was part of my journey up until there. And then obviously with the role that I'm in now, I'm really fortunate because I still have the education side of things, still have a hand in the teacher aspects, which is kind of like my bread and butter. It's what we've done for a long time, but also get the coaching side of things as well. So yeah, I'm very fortunate to be in the position that I am and, you know, very grateful for the opportunity to be in and around and work at such an amazing place.

[Louise]
It shows you what an impact having an environment where you can see people like yourself and kind of how important that is, I guess, isn't it?

[Debbie]
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think also having that positive environment where you want to keep going back to and then, you know, it kind of plants a seed where actually you want to give back. So I was part of this. How can I then create that for my players or the teachers that I'm working with in the CPD sessions or something? So, you know, it definitely links together.

[Louise]
With all the things that you've learned in your coaching experiences so far, what advice would you give to your younger self to prepare them for stepping into the world of coaching for the first time?

[Debbie]
That's a good question. I probably wish I'd started earlier to be honest. I wish I'd started coaching at that younger age as a player because we've talked about the benefits of playing and coaching at the same time. So definitely I wish I had a mentor or somebody guiding me down that path, even as a teenager, and just to give it a go. It's really great at the academy now, we encourage our under 16s, if they can, to get involved in coaching some of the younger age groups and we've found that that's worked really well in the past so definitely if I could go back and, or if I could give myself advice then definitely start younger.

[Jamie]
To flip that, what would be the best piece of advice that you've ever received from somebody?

[Debbie]
Just turn up. Yeah, I think just be there. And that actually came from my dad. So during my PGCE year, it was such a tough year, it's so intense. I'm sure anyone who's gone through that year is nodding in agreement. It is tough. I had loads of issues with my placement and other members of staff who were mentoring me at the time. I used to come home in tears. I was like phoning home, I said, I don't think I can do this. I don't think I can complete this term. And my dad came on the phone and he's like, of course you can. You can definitely do this. Just turn up. Just be there for the students. Be there for the children in front of you. And that's all he said and that's I suppose all the encouragement that I needed and thinking about it, that's kind of stuck with me as I've gone through different roles and responsibilities through my life. Especially from a teaching or coaching point of view, you don't know the impact that you're having on those players or the pupils' lives and you don't really know what sort of background they've come from or the experiences that they have had and you could be their constant, you could be their stability and they come to your session every week, week after week because they want to be there. They want to see you, you're their role model. So, you know, it's a, it's a tiring and it's intense and it's a tough, difficult job at times. And certainly that is the best piece of advice. Just, just turn up, be there.

[Louise]
It's a great piece of advice and just keeps it simple as well, kind of just turn up and just be yourself and do what you can.

[Jamie]
Yeah and a really powerful answer as well just in terms of like you don't know the impact that you're having and the fact that you did turn up and just think of the impact that you might have had on so many lives. So yeah, fantastic advice from your dad there. Really good. What would you think are the key attributes and skills that people need to be a transformational coach?

[Debbie]
I think just looking at transformational coaching, you know, firstly, what is it? And it's giving players what they need at that moment in time. So if you think about the skills and the attributes that you need, you need to be self-aware of your strengths as a person. You need to be emotionally intelligent, building those relationships and building rapport with your players. But you also need to know the game. You need to have good insight and knowledge because you need to make the decisions at the right time. So, say you're watching a game and you might need to change things or you might need to put an arm around the shoulder of a player who's really struggling, finding a situation really difficult. You need to know when is it appropriate to tell a player exactly what they should be doing and drive them in that sense or do you need more from them? When is it appropriate to demand more from them? So I think it's just knowing the best approach to take and when to take it.

[Jamie]
Now Debbie we wanted to chat to you today and get into a little bit of detail about how coaches can give their players the platform to develop and thrive in football. Obviously there's loads we could talk about here so we just focus on on a few things in the time that's remaining. One area that we feel is an important starting point for this and it's something that we've referenced already is having a good environment. So can you paint us a picture as to what a good positive environment looks like in your opinion and how you go about creating and maintaining that, please?

[Debbie]
Yeah, positive environment, it's fundamental to everything and it's difficult. It's really tough but I think firstly you need to be around people who are aligned and who want to travel in the same direction, whether that be in terms of a philosophy and your standards and expectations. So you need that buy-in from everyone, that's coaches, that's parents, that's players, because once there's a little bit of friction, you know, that can cause issues. Then I think the sessions, they need to be challenging, not too easy. They get bored, but not too difficult, so they don't want to come back. So you need to try and pitch it at that right level, so there's the correct level of challenge. They need to be inclusive, engaging, and they need to be fun. You can't coach if you don't have any players, so how can you design your sessions so that they want to come back? Because you'll find a lot of them want to be with their friends and that social aspect is really important as well. So yeah, those are just some of the key things I'd say would go towards making that positive environment.

[Louise]
Do you think those things in the environment really help to encourage players to play football as well?

[Debbie]
Yeah, I think so. And especially, I think sometimes we're afraid of that word competitiveness, so that's nothing to shy away from. I think the environment, especially at that level, say old RTCs or the academy level, it needs to have that bit of competitiveness. We'd even talk about it in terms of PE and in the school environment and yes you can set up your lessons to be competitive but also have that opportunity for collaboration as well. So the students will get to pick and choose what route they want to go down. But yeah, certainly from a football perspective, definitely competitiveness is good.

[Jamie]
To aid player development, how important is it for coaches and teachers to also understand the players and pupils?

[Debbie]
Yeah, really, really important. And I suppose advice to other coaches would be, can you use the four corner model to help with assessment and Getting to know your players that way and we only have a short amount of time that we're actually coaching and working with our players. So that's why I said earlier about arriving, if possible, arrive a little bit earlier so that you can build up those relationships with the players and get to know them, their wants, their needs, what kind of individuals are they because everyone's unique and everyone needs something different. So yeah, certainly we look at individual development plans. I know not all clubs will have that and have the capacity and the time to do that. But we find it works well for us because the players then have to decide on things that they want to work on, obviously, in collaboration with ourselves. And that's reviewed then every couple of months and it's something good to look back on. But yeah, getting to know your players is so important.

[Louise]
What kind of things do you have in your play development plans that you do use?

[Debbie]
So We would go down the route of things you want to work on in possession, so maybe three targets in possession, three things out of possession, and it just gives them the opportunity to disassess the game as a whole. For example, if I had an IDP plan whenever I was playing, mine would definitely be the out of possession, my defensive side of the game and challenging tackling. I just think it helps to develop that well-rounded player and absolutely want to encourage them to keep working on their strengths because they can become like super strengths and we don't want them to ever lose that, what they excel at, but you know it's really important to work on the things that could do with a little bit of improving.

[Louise]
I just thought it was useful for perhaps listeners to, if they've not really heard of player development plans or like kind of give them something to work on.

[Debbie]
Yeah definitely. Three, just like three key areas in possession, three key areas out of possession. Yeah.

[Jamie]
No really good advice there. How do you then go and use that information, whether it be from the individual player development plan or whether it be just from talking and getting to know them? How do you then use that information to ensure that your practice design suits their needs?

[Debbie]
Yeah, so everything's recorded and so we use that then to develop the sessions in the sense of, do we have capacity to split the group up? Can we have a group that's working on the attacking side of things? Can we work with defenders or defensive midfielders in a bit of a practice? And then can we combine them and bring them together later in the session to put it all together now? That's really difficult if you're the only coach and that can, you know, that only really works if you've got somebody with you, a co-coach, assistant, whatever you want to call it. So yeah, it's definitely quite bespoke in that sense. And that's why we tend to go about things and just giving them the most opportunity to practice and you know, hone in different skills.

[Jamie]
Do you have any further advice to kind of help any of our listeners kind of develop their sessions that meet the needs of players, but they maybe have like a large group. Do you have any advice to help them with that?

[Debbie]
Yeah, absolutely. For large groups, I would say, can you set up parallel games? So essentially that is the space that you're working in, can you split that up into different pitches and maybe have three games going on at once. It gives you the opportunity to stand back and observe everyone's on task. We would talk a lot about that in teaching as well, because obviously as a teacher you've got 30 plus pupils in your class sometimes and no help. So yeah, we can definitely use that in the coaching world as well. Then it gives you the chance to keep the flow of the session. Everyone's playing, everyone's moving, but you can then go and if there's something that you need to step in, can you work on this and come back out and gives you the opportunity to walk around to the other pitch and work while the others are continuing playing. So definitely Parallel games is a really good, yeah it's really good to use for large numbers.

[Louise]
Have you ever intentionally paired certain players up or sorted players into set teams during training to help with that at all?

[Debbie]
Yeah, so what we do in the Academy is for extra stretch and challenge we would bring at different points of the season the younger players up. So for example, I'm in the under 16s, there might be some under 14s, under 15s that would come up at certain points whenever it's appropriate for them. In the same way, our under-16s would be then encouraged to go up to the development team and experience that environment and even have a look at the first team environment. So yeah, we would definitely be quite intentional of where we place players and who with and if it's, of course, if it's appropriate for them at that time.

[Louise]
What kind of outcomes have you seen as a result of doing that?

[Debbie]
I think it's really accelerated development. You know, they're getting a different challenge, for example, you know, the under-16s that go up into that open age environment, then they've got the physicality, those different aspects, the speed, it's maybe a bit quicker or they have to deal with different types of players, different personalities and you know it's changing that mindset. Yes we're development but when they go up to open age, well actually they're training to win, you know, every week. So I think it's important to expose the players to those environments to get them ready for the transition when it's their turn.

[Jamie]
Does that help if you've got a group of players and there's quite a lot of mixed abilities in there, is that sort of an approach that you would use to handle that or do you have any other advice for helping coaches or teachers work with players and mixed abilities?

[Debbie]
That's a question actually that comes up a lot in teaching just because of the range of abilities and you know we would talk about step principle and how we would use that effectively and that can be used in coaching as well. So yeah, definitely I suppose mixing the ability is important because in terms of friendship groups, you might not want to separate if you're trying to engage players or pupils in a certain activity, football, you know, keeping friendship groups together can really help and provide that safe space to try aspects of the activity. Also that peer learning is important and if I see my teammate doing that then I'm going to try and I'm going to give it a go or so they can actually be a role model for each other and certainly in a coaching, from a coaching perspective, you know having those leaders within the group and can they display that leadership role to help their teammates and yeah we find that has worked really well.

[Jamie]
You've mentioned the step principle there which we've covered a couple of times in the show and absolutely a really really good tool to use. How beneficial is that as well as small sided games? How beneficial is it if coaches use those in their sessions and do you feel that both small sided games and the step principle will have a positive impact on player development?

[Debbie]
Yeah, 100%. Small sided games are fantastic and something we're real advocates of because smaller numbers means more touches on the ball, more repetition, more practice to finish, to pass, to intercept, to challenge. So definitely the smaller the numbers, that's really, really important to help development in that sense. In terms of step, adding in challenge like overloads, underloads, so that's the people, the amount of people that you have in that certain activity because, you know, that'll pose a different challenge as well. And sometimes we're afraid of having odd numbers, you know, it's not perfect in our heads. We want exact numbers because we have our groups and it has to be perfect. And actually, that's not how it always turns out and somebody's going to be missing or somebody's not going to turn up. And so using 2v1s, 3v2s and those odd numbers actually works really, really well. The small sided games, we talk a lot about playing the game for engagement, what's the first thing that you're asked? As a PE teacher and maybe as a coach, when are we playing a game? Can we play a game? When is it out? So yes, there's nothing wrong with actually going straight into that in your session. Don't be afraid. What we call whole part whole. So playing the game, small side of game with certain constraints and then actually coming out of that and well, maybe let's focus on some passing for a while, then we'll go back into the game at the end and try and put it together. So yeah, small side of games and step is vital really.

[Jamie]
James Reardon Now before the show, you mentioned to us about starting sessions off with an activity and kind of building up from there. Can you talk us through what this kind of a scaffolding approach is and talk us through the benefits of it and potentially any other approaches to session design? Obviously you mentioned whole part whole there as one example.

[Debbie]
Yeah, definitely really important because you know, it builds up that challenge and it's really good for increasing confidence and posing that at an appropriate level of challenge. We talk about in our teaching course, especially if we want to try and engage girls in football, in PE lessons, well let's start with the tag game, let's ball in hand, let's maybe try those aspects first to build up the patterns, the movement patterns, the passing, moving into space and build up all of those skills, because actually football is really difficult and if you haven't had exposure of that, you know it is a hard sport. So yeah, we would build it up that way and then obviously when the ball goes on the ground and it looks a little bit like football, then hopefully we've scaffolded it appropriately to get to that level. And yeah, I suppose in terms of session design, you've got a whole part whole, we've got the traditional method. So sometimes in our head, it's really easy. We'll go warm up, do an activity, do something else and then we'll end with the game. But there's, you know, there's no problem with starting with the game. Then we've got carousel games, so we can set up different challenges, different skills that we might want our pupils or players to practice, and then they spend some time with that and work their way around. So yeah, there's many different approaches that we can use, and yeah, it's just about losing that fear, and it doesn't have to be that traditional method all the time. It's good to mix things up. Definitely.

[Louise]
Do you have any top tips for keeping players engaged in your sessions?

[Debbie]
I think the social aspect is really important, so especially when they arrive, maybe after their warm-up or as part of their warm-up, can they play Bulldog or Bib Tag or Line Tag, you know the Pac-Man, all of these really great social activities to get them engaged and have fun with their friends because that's why they're there half the time and, you know, gets them moving, gets them warmed up and then actually you've got them, you've got that buy-in from them and then you can say, right, let's move on to the next part of the session but certainly from that engagement side of things we can't forget about the social aspect.

[Louise]
And do you think, I suppose while we're on the topic of player engagement, You have mentioned to us that you had a few suggestions to help coaches engage with girls specifically. Can you share any insight into what coaches can do to encourage girls to get involved in football a little bit more?

[Debbie]
Yeah, again it's just that really positive environment. I think another big thing that we certainly talk about a lot of is choice and voice. And actually, if you maybe pose a few potential activities or ways of doing things and then say, no, it's up to you, what do you want to have a go at and I think you get the buy-in a lot quicker you know from that sense. I think being a role model and standing at the front as a female so definitely encouraging females to take up coaching because I think that's really important for girls to see that there are others like them who love football as well. And yeah, again, just making it fun, making it social, depending on what level they're at. And then you can decide where you take it from there if you want to make it a bit more a collaborative approach and or if you're going to take it more that you know the competitive route.

[Jamie]
So we briefly today talked about how you make a positive environment, how you understand your players and how you encourage them to play and develop. This advice will help coaches provide a really good foundation for young players to thrive and develop at the start of their journey. But as they get older they'll potentially move into more competitive environments where development is still important but results are starting to become more essential than maybe they perhaps used to be, as you alluded to earlier. As you coach in RTC Debbie, you're in a good position to advise our listeners on this, so how do you prepare players for the change to a more competitive environment?

[Debbie]
Just going back to what we were talking about earlier, exposing your players to the different environments. So, you know, in my context, under 16s, we would start to feed in, yes, development, performance, number one. Yeah, that's really important and that's what we need to really work on. The win is the bonus and it's great to win. Don't get me wrong, everyone likes to win, but in the development side of things, it's not the most important. But then feeding in, if we're in competitions, if you want to progress, you're going to have to win. So it's just kind of switching their mindset slightly because it would be really harsh if you coach your players through years and years in that development sense and then they get to under 16, they leave and then they're in an environment where actually there's loads of pressure and they can't cope with that And then we haven't done our job as coaches. So it's really about building up player holistically and posing those maybe psychological challenges in the session. Can they deal with certain situations? Do they have that resilience? Can they cope with older players? Can they cope with different personalities? And yes, it's difficult, but you know, something that we definitely want to try and expose our players to is that open age environment. So for example, we had a player who's just stepped up into the first team environment this season from the under 16s. She's there on merit, it's not because of injuries or anything. She is good enough to be there and to play at that level. And she's had that experience through a little bit of development football last season. But then a couple of weeks ago they had a match at the Eco Power Stadium, Donnie Rover's stadium. She was playing, she started and there was just under a thousand people there. So we unfortunately can't prepare them for everything, you know, we're never going to get those numbers watching our games on a Saturday morning. But I think it was nice because there was a few of the staff went together, we sat pitch side and we were just there to be visible. She could look over, there's my comfort. I know those coaches really well, they're there watching, It's fine. So just bridging, trying to bridge it as best we can and be visible. Can't help them in every aspect, but there are certain things that we can do to help.

[Jamie]
Do you have any top tips? Obviously playing with a crowd is obviously very difficult to be able to reenact. But in training, do you have any tangible advice that you could give our listeners to help players cope with pressure?

[Debbie]
Yeah, I think it's, you know, maybe around maybe workshops that we could do or, you know, having those conversations before training, after training, just to kind of talk about those expectations. It's really difficult to replicate that side of football in training, but then it's can we try and push them out of their comfort zones, maybe give them different roles and responsibilities on match day for example and maybe where appropriate put that extra pressure on them. Of course you have to be really careful because you don't want to damage the players in terms of their psychology and you never want to put a player in a position that they're totally uncomfortable with and they just won't be able to cope. So again it comes back to knowing your players and who's maybe ready for that challenge and that maybe added responsibility. It could be wearing the captain's armband. Yes, we've got lots of leaders in the team, but maybe sharing the armband and they have to give a bit of a team talk and just building up their skills that way.

[Louise]
I guess there's something in the kind of, when you've done something and it's not gone particularly well either, how do you build resilience after that as well? And kind of bringing those things into conversation that it's okay that it didn't go well, we can learn from it and we can build stuff as well. I think things like that help.

[Debbie]
Definitely, and that just comes back to being that transformational coach and knowing how to act in the moment. So if you're seeing somebody struggling, we've got the advantage in the under 16s during our games that it's rotational subs. You know you don't have to just make three and they're on and that's it can can happen any time as many times as you want. So if you see a player really struggling, bring them out of the situation. Maybe it's the arm around the shoulder. What's going on? Talk to me. What do you need help with? Trying to feed in and give them information and tips and things as best you can on the sideline. Maybe they just need a minute to gather and compose themselves, get a quick drink, then actually they're ready to go back in. Might be feeling a little bit more prepared of what is being asked of them. But yeah, again, that just comes down to knowing your players.

[Jamie]
Overall, looking back at everything we've discussed, and we've discussed quite a wide range of topics, can you summarise the key top tips that you would like our listeners to take away from today's episode?

[Debbie]
Don't be afraid to ask questions and put yourself into situations that you might not normally put yourself into because you never know what opportunities will come of that. Can you always learn, can you read up on stuff, can you listen to different podcasts, Can you watch these resources and videos and never lose that love of learning and trying to be better? Other tips like your support network. Can you maybe join a group of like-minded people and coaches who are all after the same thing, who can help and support each other, who understand the difficulties and challenges faced, but then just to have fun. And you know, it's an immense privilege to have that role and responsibility and yeah it's just about enjoying the time that you have to be able to do that.

[Louise]
Fantastic. We're going to ask you if you've got a coaching challenge that you want to put out to coaches that perhaps based on practice design or understanding players, something that you think might help them to think and try some new things out maybe?

[Debbie]
I think maybe just what we were talking about earlier in terms of those IDPs and maybe a challenge could be can you work with your players to give them those in possession targets, those out of possession targets and then set review times throughout the season where you can come back to it, assess it. So I think that might be a good challenge. If coaches have never done that before, it might be something they want to think about.

[Louise]
Yeah, sounds like a good one. And I think, like we always say, it's really good to go on the community and discuss those, what you've tried and how it's gone. And if it worked, if it didn't, share your experiences. Absolutely, yeah.

[Jamie]
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, please go and do that. And we look forward to seeing how it all went. We are coming up to the end of the show now Debbie, but that does mean it is time for our swift session feature.

[Louise]
We're gonna give you another 30 seconds and this time I'm gonna ask you to try to explain to us a session idea in those 30 seconds. Are you up for this challenge?

[Debbie]
I will try. Okay, we'll give it a go.

[Louise]
Once again, once the music starts, you can begin.

[Debbie]
So, divide your space into two halves. One side, say, yellow, one side blue. Join your players together in pairs, one yellow bib, one blue bib, one v ones, put 30 seconds on the clock and it is the player who ends up in their side with the ball after those 30 seconds.

[Louise]
That sounds great. We didn't need this.

[Debbie]
There's loads of videos online, it's called the Stadium Game. There's so much you can do with that game but definitely I would get on the website and check that one out.

[Jamie]
Yeah I believe, I believe we've got that on YouTube so definitely go and check that out. Yeah it's a great game that one. Thank you very much for that Debbie, yeah I love that idea. And thank you very much for your time today, I know we've kind of had a bit of a whistle-stop tour through some topics, but it's been really fascinating listening to you inside. I'm sure there's so much that our listeners will be able to take away, so hopefully you've enjoyed it as well, but we certainly have.

[Debbie]
Absolutely, no thank you very much for having me.

[Louise]
Lovely to have you on.

[Jamie]
Yes, thank you. Well, that was a really good chat with Debbie. What would you say was the main thing that stuck out to you from our conversation?

[Louise]
Once again, loads of really interesting points and kind of good insight from Debbie. But I think one thing that stuck with me is the way that she kind of approaches or she sees teams that she works in is that family and she mentioned it a couple of times with everybody wearing the same shirt and feeling part of something. I think it's just a good thing to think about remember when you are working with a team.

[Jamie]
Yeah, it's a really nice one and something that stuck with me was just the impact that coaches and teachers can have and Debbie mentioned that her dad said a piece of advice is just turn up, you know, and just think of the impact that coaches can have that might be the constant for somebody. So yeah, just turn up, give coaching a go and you could have a huge impact on somebody's life. That's what I take away from that episode. Right, well that's all we have time for today, but don't forget to check out the episode description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football Community. This is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.

[Louise]
Yep, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.