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[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to The FA's Vicky Fisher and Vinny Halsall to talk about poor behaviour and how to deal with it. Vicky, Vinny, it's great to have you back on the show. How are you both?

[Vicky]
Yeah, it's really great to be back. Great to be joining you both today.

[Vinny]
Yeah, likewise, Jamie and Louise. Lovely to be back on Coachcast and look forward to chatting about a really important topic.

[Louise]
Like Jamie said, it's really nice to have you both back with us. Can we just do a bit of a reminder of your roles so everybody knows what it is that you do and how you do it?

[Vicky]
Yeah, so I am a regional coach developer, work in the same team as Vinnie, so we get the pleasure of working together quite often. We work across the South West and I spend a lot of my time around how do we support the female games, how do we get more female coaches into the game and look after them, but actually just generally how do we help coaches?

[Vinny]
Lovely. Yeah and my specific remit beyond the grassroots team or as part of the grassroots team is with the PE team, supporting trainee and current practicing teachers again across the southwest region, so going into universities, skit organizations etc. So yeah that's the role.

[Jamie]
Brilliant, thank you very much, Beau, for that. Now, as you both will recall, just before we dive into the main part of the show, as this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on the way to training while they're tuning into this, so we always like to give them some good advice at the top of the show.

[Louise]
Yep. So we call this the arrival activity. And what we would like to do is give you 30 seconds to give us as many top coaching tips as you can. This one could be around anything at all, but as we're kind of talking about managing poor behaviour it might be good to make some tips about that perhaps? Are you both up for the challenge? Yeah I'm ready. Absolutely. What I'll do is I'll put 30 seconds on the clock and when you're ready we'll start from there.

[Vicky]
Okay so my top tip especially over winter and when we're talking about managing behaviour and keeping our players busy is let's try and keep them as moving as much as we can. So no interventions, keep them playing and chat to them during drinks breaks.

[Vinny]
Yeah and following up on that, especially at this time of year, let's focus on catching the young players in rather than catching them out. So identifying any positive things that they do and that will lend itself towards lots of positive behaviours from everybody.

[Jamie]
Brilliant, excellent advice. So you just about got in there, just about. Well thank you both for that. Let's dive into the main part of the show which we're going to be talking all about poor behaviour which can sound a little bit like this.

[Sound clip of an actor playing a coach]
Boys it’s too easy! He’s run right past you! What are you doing? You’re in defence! Oh, it’s terrible. What are you shooting from there for?!?

[Jamie]
Now some listeners may recognise that clip is from one of our old ‘Respect’ videos where an actor is shouting at their team rather than being positive. And you may be thinking that actually you've heard worse on some matchdays. Well, in fact, in our conversation about our game survey, 71% of people questioned believe poor behaviour is the most significant problem in grassroots football at the moment. And that's why we're here today to shine a light on that behaviour and to provide some advice to help you handle it. Well, Vicky, we'll come to you first, thinking of that, kind of reflecting on your experiences in the game. What poor behaviour have you witnessed?

[Vicky]
I think what you've just said is right. We see poor behaviour more often. I saw an example myself really recently, which probably highlighted it. It involved a young player and a coach, the same I'm sure lots of us can probably empathise with or have seen. And this player actually played for two teams within a club. He played for the under 18s and the under 16s, which we know is more common now. Players might play for more than one team, and especially as we support them transitioning to, you know, open age football and keep players in the game. Now, unfortunately, this player had made a decision to play for one team on a Sunday morning rather than the other, and the other coach didn't like that decision that the player made. Now, what happened next was the coach turned up at the game and it was really intimidating for that player involved and that player's parents. And when we think about the environments that we're trying to create, these safe, fun environments where we keep players in the game and we want them to keep coming back, in that moment and that situation, that player probably felt the opposite. Knowing that there was an adult on the sidelines, screaming and shouting at them, or confronting their parents around the decisions that they've made, I think it's that opportunity, that chance to step back and remember, actually, this is the player's game. Like, our job, our role is to help these players play the game and stay in love with the game and not take those opportunities away from it or control that for them. An unpleasant thing to witness and to see and if I'm honest in that situation my priority was with that player and making sure that he was okay and there were other people dealing with that situation but I certainly know how it made me feel just experiencing it and witnessing it.

[Louise]
Yeah, it's really not the environment that we want players to be in. We don't want them to feel uncomfortable in those places. So how about you, Vinny? What poor behaviour have you seen?

[Vinny]
I think for myself, Louise, it's really around that lack of respect. And that might be respect for the officials and the decisions that they're making. So the referee, the assistants, it might be a lack of respect between players from opposing teams. It might be a lack of respect between players actually on the same team. And I think in view of the fact that, you know, what are we trying to provide through DFA and through England Football Learning, we're trying to provide more inspirational opportunities for all of our young players, all of our teenagers, all of our adults. And within the grassroots game, I would imagine the vast majority of people listening to this will be volunteers. And I think if we can just really shine a light in the importance of trying to be respectful in everything that we do. And as I say, the most common one, isn't it, is arguing with decisions. That for me is a really important piece that's, I think we can look at a prevention ahead of cure approach to that, whereby we know that people will challenge referees' decisions, but certainly if I'm involved in a matchday leading up to say a Sunday, I will always try and have communication with the coach from the other team in the lead up, rather than just start to have conversations on the day. And hopefully he can try and be on the same page as soon as that first whistle is blown. And that way, if there is a decision by the referee that is contentious. We simply accept it and get on with it. Cause the mantra I give to everybody is all of us today, coaches, referee, players, we're all going to make mistakes within this matchday environment. So let's actually be respectful of what we're trying to do. And let's try and create that inspirational, enjoyable opportunity.

[Jamie]
And kind of like, how important is it to have that right environment for everybody involved? Because what impact that poor behaviour can have on that, we want the right environment there for people to stay involved. And that's important for us to be doing as coaches, isn't it?

[Vinny]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, you've got to be clear as an individual coach, and I'll link this to a challenge later on to all coaches, you know, what is your why? What is your purpose? Why are you coaching? And then if you can link that to your club purpose and your club philosophy, then I think all coaches would then be entering that matchday environment with a clear understanding of what they're trying to achieve, what are the outcomes for that game, whether it be with your under eight, your under 18s or your adult players. So yeah, having a very clear purpose and a very clear why can help all of us to frame and to reset, if you like, in terms of, you know, my why is all about the long-term development of the young players, developing the person ahead of the player. So I think that's so, so important and maybe for coaches to think about more, whether they be new coaches or experienced ones.

[Louise]
So to help try and improve behaviour in football, we want to provide coaches with some tangible advice to help them deal with the undesirable and unacceptable behaviours. So what top tips can you give coaches to help them deal with their own players when they behave unacceptably towards match officials or the opposition?

[Vicky]
I think for coaches there's a few things that we can do. I think there's a piece around we need to consider what our training environment looks like as well as matchdays, because the two are really heavily linked and they don't happen in isolation. I think there's a piece, and Vinny's already touched on it, around what are our values as a team and as a club, and actually what are perhaps some of our own codes of conducts. I think there's a massive piece around, and I've mentioned it, you know, it's our players' game. It's their game, and it's really important that they are part of that process. So it might be that actually we have a code of conduct that the players write with guidance from coaches that almost they can be held accountable to. So actually, if some of our standards drop or the behaviours, it can be challenging. Actually, do you know what, this is what we do as a team. So you've not behaved okay in this training session or, you know, you've turned up late or, you know, so they can be held accountable. And I think that also mirrors then on a matchday. So what are your behaviours on the touchline as a coach? Because your players will mirror those behaviours. So if one of your rules is that your players don't confront officials or don't shout or swear at officials, but then as a coach you do that on a touchline, those behaviours aren't mirrored. So I think, you know, like I say, when we think about those top tips, I think it's around the buying and the ownership of the players because it's their games? What are our values as a club and as a team and as a group of people? And do our behaviours mirror what we might have discussed and spoken about?

[Jamie]
Vicky, just on the back of something you said there in terms of it's important for coaches to kind of be looking after their own behaviour and modelling that behaviour, Do you have any top tips or any advice to help coaches in the heat of the moment to stay on top of their behaviour? Because we all know that matchday is obviously chaotic and everybody wants to win, of course, but do you have any top tips to help coaches just keep in control?

[Vicky]
I think it links, I think Vinny's mentioned it, you know, there's a reality that people make mistakes every single day of their life. People make mistakes away from football, let alone in the footballing environment. So, you know, we can really quickly react to a decision that's been made, but actually we don't know the context. We don't know why that person's made that decision. Often, we don't even hear it on the touchline. They might explain to the players, but often we don't hear that information. So it goes back to that. We are role models for the players and the parents around us. So we might not agree with the decision that's been made. We might not understand the decisions that's been made, but right there in that heat at that moment, that's probably not the time to react to it because it's not going to change the decision. That decision isn't going to change the decisions that's been given. It might be later on, it might be after the game, even that you might talk to the referee and ask them for their opinion or their view, not confront them, but actually, you know, for your own understanding. But it's that just reflecting and remembering, you know, where we are and what we're trying to achieve. And it might not always be easy, but there is a much bigger picture to it. And I think we've got to remember that We're in a position of responsibility and we're role models to those people around us.

[Louise]
And as a coach, what can you do if it's the opposition players who are behaving unacceptably? Is there anything that you can do?

[Vinny]
If I can come in there, Louise, I think the whole piece around respect is so important, isn't it? We talk about the word respect, and if I can just share a few ideas that I have around that word, and I'm gonna take it letter by letter. So for me, the letter R is all about relationships, rapport, and being a role model. Now, if you have a situation on a matchday that arises and you've not had any sort of opportunity to build a relationship with the opposition coach, then that would be one of my top tips. Actually try and do that rather than half an hour before kickoff, 45 minutes before kickoff when you first meet, try and do that in the week leading up to the game. Because ultimately we should all be there with the same intention. Why are we involved in grassroots football? Surely to enjoy it, to have a good time. And Jamie, you mentioned earlier about winning. I'll come on to the whole winning versus development piece in a moment, but you can't win every game of football. So can we actually set ourselves a challenge of going out to actually have an enjoyable experience? The rapport piece, I try and develop that by inviting the opposition coach during the week to have a 10 minute phone call, just to start to get to know each other a little bit, because I see too many sidelines whereby coaches are there and it's as if they're going into battle against each other. Well, actually, they're not even playing the game. They're on the sidelines. So as Vicky said, we should be good role models in the way we actually conduct ourselves and ask our players to conduct themselves. And that whole idea about enjoyable experience for everybody, that would be my first letter E from the concept of respect. Can we set ourselves the challenge as I've already said? And then my last one, I won't go down the hole of the R-E-S-P-E-C-T, I feel a song coming on. I would suggest that Sportsmanship surpasses scorelines. And if any coaches like that idea, if you're going into a game and it's only, your behaviours are only going to be governed by the scoreline, we've got a problem. Because that means that in the games where the scoreline isn't going your way, you're going to now exhibit poor behaviours. That might be shouting at your play, shouting at the referee, shouting at the opposition, coaches, etc. So for me, sportsmanship as part of that whole respect concept is key here.

[Jamie]
Vinny, do you have any advice, further advice to kind of help people integrate that sportsmanship, whether it be themselves or whether it be their team at all?

[Vinny]
Yeah, I think, you know, the whole piece around the role model is important. Vicky's reference practice sessions as well. So, you know, we talk about the development of the whole player within the FA in England football learning. And, you know, we're looking to develop social skills and cognitive skills within our players. And so I think we need to have that front and centre of our practice sessions as well, so that when we do merge into a matchday, those same intentions are front and center of what we're actually trying to do. And I think if, you know, if we see, if I see one of my own players not exhibiting good sportsmanship, then that might just be a, you know, a gentle reminder. It might be a timely substitution. And I actually call my players who substitute game changes. So it might be time for one of my game changes to come on. And maybe somebody who's just exhibited some poor behaviour to come off and have a little bit of a timeout. But doing that in a calm and a compassionate fashion, rather than a fashion that could actually lead that player to become more emotional because it is an emotional game.

[Jamie]
I will come to both yourself Vinny and Vicky with this question and give you both a chance to answer this. But if we go to yourself first Vicky, Vinny's mentioned prevention rather than cure which of course is really important but if there is something in the moment perhaps an opposition coach is behaving poorly in the moment maybe berating their players or directing the frustrations at yourself, or again, as we've mentioned, referees. What can the coach do in the moment if they've not been able to prevent it before it actually happened?

[Vicky]
Yeah, I think there's multiple answers and I think it depends on the situation, but also, you know, how comfortable you feel as a coach. I think the biggest advice is don't react to it so that it becomes confrontational because again we're there to be role models for the people around us and the last thing that we want to do is make any situation worse. I think you also need to remember, you know, your priority in that moment. So actually, are all of your players okay? And are they affected by what's going on? I think that's a really important consideration. And then dependent on the situation and whether you feel comfortable, it might be that you feel okay to perhaps challenge your position. So by challenge, I mean, challenge their behaviour and say, actually, I don't think what you're doing is appropriate. But it might be that that's a situation that you're not comfortable in. And also, that's okay, because they're not comfortable with situations. But it's then, who can you speak to after that happens to perhaps get some help or support or make sure that that situation is followed up so actually the person the following week doesn't experience the same thing. And that could be, you know, within your own club, it could be your welfare officer, it could be league officers. Again, it will depend on who you are and where you are. But for me, priority is always, are the players okay for us? Because that's why we're there. And then, you know, what could I do next potentially?

[Jamie]
Vinny, you got anything to add to that? Like what would you do in that situation?

[Vinny]
Yeah, I think that emotional control is really important, isn't it? But I will also come back to the fact if you've built up a little bit of relationship and some rapport with the opposition coach or coaches. You've got half a chance. For example, Jamie, if you're the opposition coach and I am actually talking to you before the game saying, hi, Jamie, how are you? Et cetera, et cetera. That little bit of relationship building is so important. And then two minutes in, you're straight away out of your technical area, which we know grassroots level more often than not is just a set of cones that designate two or three meters back and straight away you're out the area and you're on the sidelines if you're about to play left wing. And so my go-to would be, Jamie, just remember the technical area, please. So it's polite, it's affirmative, but there's also in there an element of zero tolerance. We talked about this during the week that we would have technical areas. I reminded you, yeah, Jamie, by talking to you in a nice, polite way. And then you've actually come out of your technical area. So there's that element of building that relationship and that rapport, getting to know each other by first names. And also just at that point, a gentle reminder, now if you're the sort of coach who ignores that and responds in an aggressive fashion, then as Vicky said, there's a time and a place just to say, okay, well, at some point, hopefully this coach will recognize that that behaviour isn't okay. And it might involve the referee having to have a little word. And again, you want to be building that good relationship and rapport with the referee. But for me, there has to be an element at some point around zero tolerance. This is what we've agreed in terms of what our matchday would look like. And this is what it has to look like.

[Louise]
So you mentioned referees there, Vinny, and we've mentioned them a couple of times so far. But, you know, obviously there's times that we may disagree with the decisions that they make, but it's unacceptable to give them abuse. And also, it's thinking about that sometimes officials are just kids themselves. So How can we as coaches help safeguard them from poor and unacceptable behaviour?

[Vicky]
I think that piece links to everything else we've just said. Without officials, we don't have a game. We don't have the game. And it's the job that the majority of people don't want to do. So we can guarantee if we ask our parents if anybody would like to referee a game this weekend, I can't imagine there being many volunteers. So we've got a duty to protect and look after our officials. We know that we've got a number of youth officials in the game who are still children, their self, effectively, they're young people. So we need to make sure that our behaviours on the touchline support them, that we continue to be role models in terms of the language that we use. But also our players, and it links back to what we said at the start around that, you know, those values and those codes of conduct. So there's a difference between a player asking a referee about a rule or a decision and then a player confronting or being upset or being angry. And I think we've got responsibility of coaches then to manage those situations. So actually, if I see a player treating a referee in a way that I don't think is okay, so whether that's, like I say, using bad language, being confrontational, actually just being really disrespectful, then it's probably time for that player to come off the pitch and have a breather and talk through the why that's not okay. And Vinny said earlier, we've got substitutes, we've got game changers, we've got all of these people that want to play football. So, and it goes back to that, why are we on the pitch? It's not a win at all costs environment. It's not a, I'm going to allow that player to stay on the pitch and talk to a match official like that because it might win me the game. It's around how we manage those behaviours and how we conduct ourselves as coaches and our values to ultimately, like I say, protect those officials in the middle. And they will make mistakes. We will make mistakes in our coaching. We might give the wrong information at the wrong time, or we might make the wrong substitution at the wrong time, but we don't get shouted at for that. We might know ourselves and our players might tell us, but it's a very different environment.

[Jamie]
Vinny, do you want to weigh in?

[Vinny]
Yeah, sure. I think it's a very much a learning curve, isn't it, for the young players. So if I could use my example, I've been working with the vast majority of my squad since they were seven or eight years of age. So for those of us who are parents as well, it's actually educating our children that I'll come back to the word respect, that we need to be respectful, that we have a referee here, whether it be a teenager or somebody who's more experienced, and they are here to facilitate the game. As Vicky said, if we don't have referees, we don't have a game. It's as simple as that. So educating them over time that we need to be respectful. One example is let's talk about the end of the game. Win, lose or draw, we go and thank the referee. When my boys were seven, eight, nine, 10 years of age, we used to do three cheers for the referee. Now that they're middle teenagers, that's not such a cool thing to do. I think it's quite cool actually, but you know, and certainly when I was teaching, all of my school teams would give three cheers to the opposition and three cheers to the referee. So there's those little interventions that are really important. And therefore over time, my youngsters now know that I expect them to go and shake hands with the referee and to say, thank you. That's just good common courtesy. And you know, when we're talking about the way society has changed over the last four or five years. I think football needs to continue to be a vehicle to actually help our youngsters to develop as good people, as well as half decent players. So yeah, it's that ongoing process, it's that ongoing development piece that I think is really, really important. And I also have a role for my parents as well. So within my respect, I promise I'm not gonna go down every letter, but my P within that is positive parental participation. And one of the things that I actually do and I've introduced at our club, we actually have a respect marshal which is designed to be another intervention to support that whole process around respecting referees. Should the parents on the other side of the pitch wearing a bright white bib as a designated respect marshal here something 70 metres away that I might not hear.

[Jamie]
You've said a couple of things that I want to pick up on there Vinny. One thing that you've said has unlocked a memory. I was in my youth football career, I can always remember a coach, the three cheers for the opposition and you know shaking hands and I used to play for a team that we lost every week but his behaviour was it was exactly the same and he's the one that I remember fondly for that behaviour. So yeah that was a nice memory that's just unlocked there. The other thing is the ‘p-word that you've mentioned, ‘parents’. You know obviously parents and other spectators can sometimes be the ones causing issues. Now we all know parents just want the best for the kids and they want them to have fun and they want them to win and enjoy themselves of course, but do you both have any examples of it happening where parents maybe are causing issues on the sidelines and if so what were they doing and how did you deal with it? If we start with yourself first Vinny.

[Vinny]
Yeah I think it's the clear expectations, the zero tolerance so the parents understand in the communications leading up to the game And I always try and go and have a little conversation with the opposition parents before a game as well. Just say, hi, I'm Vinnie, name my club, et cetera. And again, trying to build that little bit of a relationship. We've got refreshments here, et cetera, et cetera. And obviously enjoy the game this morning, everyone. And remember, you're here to clap and cheer and do all that good stuff, but we really don't want you shouting stuff onto the pitch because that's not your role. When I then leave the parent's sideline and go across, you know, 70 meters away, that's where one of my parents will in effect become one of my brothers in arms if you like, in terms of it is their role to identify any negative behaviours. And I make that clear as well to the opposition parents that we do have a respect marshal. If you've got any concerns, you can speak to them as well. And then my final top tip is actually around the respect barrier. Now this isn't feasible in every matchday context, but I've seen some respect barriers which literally sit half a meter off the pitch. And actually distance is a great calming influence. So if you've got the space, can you set your respect barrier about two meters off the pitch? If you know you're playing against the lively bunch this weekend, because you've played them previously, and you've got the space, set it three meters back. And that doesn't half make a difference in terms of the parents proximity to the sideline, not least in terms of that whole safeguarding piece. If we have got some parents, spectators, relatives who have been lively in the past, then naturally we want them as far away from the pitch as we can so that the youngsters can simply get on with the game. So appreciate that's not going to be possible for everyone. You might not have the space, but the use of the respect barrier can be quite a smart strategy to keep the parents at a good distance.

[Jamie]
I like that really good tip there. Vicky, have you got anything else to add from your experiences at all?

[Vicky]
Yeah, I think the use of the respect barrier has been really significant and I think it goes back to the accountability in terms of that roles on the day. You know, parents absolutely come along and watch your children play football because that's why you're there, but encourage the poor, watch in a positive manner and having those respect lines and barriers, it makes it really clear around actually, like this is where we'd like you to be. So, you know, you can count how many times you've already been to games and you see parents standing behind goals where you've got a poor goalie trying to make decisions and play the game and somebody shouting at them behind them. Now as a coach now that's really easy for me to go up to that person and say, oh, it's great that you're here supporting, but can you do it over there? Because then the players can play the game. So I think things like that give us a bit of protection as coaches to be comfortable with having that conversation with that individual to say, oh, actually, can you go there? That's really helpful. And I just think it goes back to all the things we've said around what are our values as a club? How would we like our parents to behave? We want people to come and watch our youth players play football. We want everyone to love the game. We want everyone to behave next to a football pitch as they would behave as they're walking down the street. Just because we're next to a football pitch, that doesn't mean that should be the place where we scream and shout and argue with each other because when we leave the gates, I'm fairly confident we wouldn't do that. So it's around managing the environment, making it clear in terms of, you say, your club, your team, you know, the values that you expect and highlighting and sharing that with, say, with players, with parents.

[Louise]
I guess there's something in almost reminding them to appreciate the positive things. So if they are going to say anything, just focus on the positive things that are happening. I think that's probably quite a nice thing to think of as a parent and focus on those things instead of what they perceive as negative things.

[Jamie]
Yeah, just kind of delving deeper into talking about parents and spectators' behaviour on the sideline. Vinny, if we come to you first, can you kind of paint a picture for our listeners of maybe what types of poor behaviour they may see and maybe what you've potentially witnessed, if we can elaborate on that and maybe the strategies that they might be able to use to deal with that?

[Vinny]
Yeah, there's a few really, Jamie. The most extreme one is obviously that parent or spectator. We're all the same parents, aren't we? There could be grandparents, uncles, aunties, you know, shouting at the referee. And I think that one, that's got to be a zero tolerance element again of our matchday experience. If that was for me a home game, more often than not, my parent Respect Marshall would go and have a little chat, but I'm very, very perceptive of hearing stuff like that, because most of my matchday experiences have been so, so positive and it will go back to the prevention ahead of cure. I believe that those preventative measures that you put in place will actually reap their rewards, if you like, in terms of that positive experience. So there's the shouting at the referee. There's obviously the coaching from the sidelines from the parents. So constantly shouting instructions. My parents don't do it because they know that I just won't accept it. I've been working with the vast majority of them for five, six years. So again, it's a process. It's an educating process. If parents from the opposition are doing it, I will have a quiet words with the opposition coach, just to say the chap in the gray coat, he keeps shouting information onto your players. Can you go and have a word, please? And more often than not, and I've had this genuine situation that the opposition coach is like, oh, sorry, I didn't hear it. I said, well, if you listen carefully, I'm sure he'll be at it again in the next 60 seconds. And I have had coaches, you know, if there's been a coaching pair, one of them physically go round and actually say to the parent, sorry, can you stop doing that, please? So again, a key, I will keep returning to the zero tolerance. If that's the environment that we are wanting to create, where the parents are spectators, they can applaud, they can cheer, they can clap, but they're not there to be coaching the players. And therefore, if it does happen, then we just need to manage it, hopefully with that positive relationship that you've already built up with the opposition coaches as well.

[Jamie]
Vicky, do you want to tie in with that as well?

[Vicky]
I guess a lot of my bit probably links in with that coaching the players piece. And again, I think it's that stepping back and remembering why we're there, but also the impact that that has on our players. And I think as coaches, again, we've probably got some things that we could do to align things a little bit better. So actually, for example, as Vinny said, actually, you know, his parents, they don't coach from the sidelines, which is fantastic, but it might be actually, if we've got new coaches who are starting off on that journey, you know, how do you set those boundaries and those expectations? Because it can be really hard. So it might be actually that you share with your parents what you've been working on in your training session that week. So when they're watching the match on a Sunday, don't coach them, but actually these are the things that would be great if you could watch out for. So rather than we have a touchline full of parents shouting, pass the ball, well actually we've been asking our players to work on their dribbling this week. So actually if you see a player stay on the ball and have a dribble, give them a clap because that's fantastic. So I think sometimes as coaches, the more we can share with parents, the easier it can become. I also think sometimes we've got to say the not so nice stuff. So actually sometimes if you're that coach and you're trying to explain to the parents, you know, the negatives of them coaching, actually, how is it making those players feel? And actually, let's ask the players, how do you feel when you've got 50 people on the touchline shouting at you, and you're trying to make a decision of what you need to do next? And sometimes I think we need to reframe that to those on the sidelines to say, actually, how would you feel? How would you feel if you had all of these people shouting at you because, like I say, we want players to love the game. We want them to stay in the game for as long as possible. We want them to enjoy their football. So I think, like I say, as much information that we can share, that we can give them and explain the why, and ultimately challenge it, challenge it when it does happen. We've been working on this, this is what we expect of you as parents, these are our values.

[Jamie]
Some really good, powerful and simple top tips there for people to be able to use. Vinny, you got anything else to add?

[Vinny]
Yeah I think it's really important to caveat everything that Vicky and I are saying in terms of context is crucial. So I'm thinking about Vicky's example and I'm reflecting on what I said a couple of minutes ago, that idea of going around and talking to a group of parents. I'm talking about the context there of youngsters who are playing under 15, under 14, under 13, all the way down to under eight football. We will have coaches who are working within the grassroots context who are coaching adult players, and therefore it will be more of a, a very much an adult audience watching from the sideline, and it might be friends, and there might be access to a bar, etc. Etc. So context is crucial. And I think that intervention might be something that happens more after a game. If you've actually got somebody from the far sideline who was constantly shouting information onto the pitch at your players, then it might just be a case of you might have to talk to an adult player about that group of friends who are constantly giving information. So yeah, context is crucial in everything that Vicky and I are sharing today.

[Jamie]
Okay, so confronting unacceptable behaviour, We all want to have a great environment and we ideally want to shut people down of course when we see that poor behaviour in action. But it can obviously be quite daunting, especially if any of the individuals in question are perhaps being a little bit aggressive. So do we give you any advice that you can provide someone who has spotted something but feels getting involved may put their own safety at risk or they're just a little bit uncomfortable in doing so? We'll go to Vinny first.

[Vinny]
Yeah thanks Jamie. I think that whole piece around first of all safeguarding is everybody's responsibility. So it can't be something that we can turn a blind eye or a blind ear to if we actually witness something. My top tip would be that if we are wanting to report something, then that needs to go to the club welfare officer. So yes, it's all well and good that you can actually reference information to the coach, but actually information needs to go to the club welfare officer, and then there would need to be some sort of reporting system through the welfare officer that could go to the league and the county FA. So yeah, really important that people just don't turn a blind eye to it because we want the best environment possible for everyone.

[Vicky]
Yeah, and I would echo what Vinny said. I just think, like I say, there's always that consideration of that safety first. So, you know, do not ever put yourself in a position where you think you could come to harm or somebody else could come to harm. But ultimately, that doesn't mean that behaviour doesn't need to be challenged. I think there's also a piece around sometimes, again, it's that prevention piece. If you know that you've got a potentially difficult game on the weekend or you're playing a team who you feel there could be some issues or there could be some confrontation around who else can we get there to support you in that situation. So other club members, for example, so that actually if something does happen and we hope it never would, but actually then you've got the backup and support there that you might need.

[Louise]
So we're aware that we're giving advice to coaches to help them deal with issues that could arise, but that doesn't mean that they're on their own and it's only them who's responsible for dealing with poor behaviour. Vinnie, you mentioned earlier that in your league you have respect marshals. What role do they play? Could you tell us a little bit more about them?

[Vinny]
Yeah, it's as simple as Louise, just another pair of eyes and ears, as I say, on the other side of the pitch. And just to be clear, it's something that we've introduced as, at my club, We did it initially through our tournament day a couple of seasons ago. I think we have over a hundred teams. That's another rabbit hole, isn't it? Tournament days in terms of what they look and feel like. But we have five Respect Marshals who all have walkie talkies, and they're just a really obvious, explicit physical presence. Moving around the pitches, I say we've got nice, bright white bibs with the Respect Martial logo on the back and we only do positive on the front. So their role is to, I say, be that other pair of eyes and ears to intervene in a calm, caring, compassionate way. And it's important that the skill set of the person doing that is right. So I actually asked my parents on a matchday when we are hosting a game, so our league doesn't have respect marshals, but my club is trying to push it to the league to say, this really should be something that we roll out across our league and across the country. But it's got to be the right person with the right skill set to be able to manage those situations. But I say they are over the other side of the pitch, and they will simply intervene, and if necessary, and I've had this happen once or twice, actually physically come around the pitch to talk to me to say that this has just happened. More often than not, they do that a half time or full time.

[Louise]
And you mentioned the skillset, what kind of things do you look for for someone to do that role?

[Vinny]
They just need to have really good people skills because ultimately, behaviours happen for a reason. And if it's, let's say, the youngsters on the pitch, let's say, using foul and abusive language and the respect marshal hears that and I don't, then obviously I will know that that individual player will be behaving like that for a certain reason. And without going into any sort of specific examples, you then are able to manage with the support of that respect marshal by flagging it up if I haven't heard something, the behaviour of that individual player. But coming back to the specific skills, yeah, really good people skills and the ability to stay calm because a matchday experience does become very emotional and can become very fraught, particularly when people are sometimes invested more in the scoreline than they are around the whole development piece. So yeah, those people skills are really important.

[Louise]
S1 And is there anyone else that can help other than Respect Marshals that you've introduced, Vinny?

[Vinny]
I think the whole parent cohort, really. And again, by working with a group of parents over a period of time, being very, very clear, I'll go back to something I said earlier about your club philosophy and your own personal why, sharing that with your parents, you know, at an appropriate time in the year, which more often than not is before the season starts and being clear in terms of reminding the parents or asking them, you know, what is our club philosophy? Ours is really simple. It's framed around four letters from the name of our club, if you like. So having the parents on board as your allies on a matchday is really, really important and sustaining a really good relationship with them. One of the things I've introduced over the last couple of years, Jamie, I referenced this on our last one. We used to do a sweet thing at the end of a game, whereby we would give sweets out to our players. And I would ask my parents to actually come and take a little candy bar and actually go and give it to somebody, not your child, who you think has done something really good today and tell them why. We still keep the sweets going. We actually pick a player of the match for the opposition. So we're talking about building relationships and rapport and the sportsmanship piece. We still do that now, even at under 15 age group. At the end of the game, I'll say to my boys and the boys who've been on the pitch but are now are on the bench, if you like, towards the end of the game, can we start thinking five minutes before the end, who do you think has been the opposition best player and why? And then we go and do that as a little bit of sportsmanship towards the end. But coming back to my parents, we now have a little trophy at the end of the game and it's called the player of the match. We have two trophies, sorry, player of the match and moment of the match. And my parents, for let's say three months of the season, it'll be their job to identify the moment of the match. And they will actually talk about that at the end of the game in front of the whole group of players. And it'll be me and my assistant coach who will talk about the play of the match. And then we'll reverse it. So Having that positive parental involvement and keeping those relationships good with your parents means that you can really build up some allyship with them.

[Jamie]
Brilliant. Cheers for that, Vinny. And I suppose just before we kind of wrap up this episode, Vicky, you kind of highlighted it a little bit before, but just want to kind of summarize like how people can go about reporting bad behaviour at all.

[Vicky]
Yeah, it's about knowing how your club is set up and we know every club's set up slightly differently, so but do you know who your welfare lead is at your club? Do you know who your chairperson is at your club? Do you know who your chairperson is at your club? Do you know who these key people are so that if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to talk through something or you need to share some information, actually you know who those key people are and you know who to go to. There's also a piece locally around your County FA, So actually if you feel it's something you can't go to your club's welfare officer about, do you know who your county safeguard and lead is? So I think as coaches, we've got a duty, we've got a responsibility ourselves to know who these key people are in our area, within our club settings. And we'd like to think that we might not ever need to use them but as much as we might not ever need to use them actually it might be next weekend that we see something that that needs to be dealt with so absolutely something you know to go away and make sure actually that that we know you know who are these key people How do I contact them if I ever need to?

[Jamie]
And kind of just following up on that, if someone spotted poor behaviour and reported it, are you aware of if there's any like, sort of like deterrence for that bad behaviour? Like, is there any sort of punishments that come on the back of that at all?

[Vicky]
I guess ultimately that will be dealt with on an individual basis in terms of, you know, what was the incident involved? Who did it affect? I know very much like Vinny, I coach in my local community and the club that I'm involved with have been really proactive in dealing with poor behaviour where actually, you know, coaches have had suspensions from the club where it's felt that their behaviour has dropped below the club's values and they haven't been those role models that they need to be. And I think there's a really big opportunity, you know, for clubs to take ownership of some of this. Actually, like I say, what are our club values? What standards of behaviour do we expect for our coaches? And ultimately the only way they can challenge these coaches if they know this behaviour is going on. So we've all got a duty to make sure it's being challenged or reported, to make sure that it's followed up and it doesn't continue to happen.

[Vinny]
Yeah, I think just coming on the back of what Vicky said there, Jamie and Louise, it is everybody's responsibility around safeguarding. It really is important that if people, whether it be a parent, a grandparent, a coach, another adult, that we all take responsibility for reporting anything that we see or hear that just isn't right. I've talked earlier about the concept of zero tolerance and we're all aware, aren't we, that there's a new initiative coming out through the FA which is actually simply saying enough is enough because the behaviour's happening week in, week out in grassroots football whether it be for younger children, teenagers and adults. It simply needs to stop otherwise we're not going to have a game and we all love the game don't we?

[Louise]
Yeah, a really important message to hear as we come to the end of this bit of the conversation. Thanks for that Vinnie. One thing that we do want to do just before we wrap up is ask you if you've got a coaching challenge that you can set our listeners. Vinnie, you mentioned earlier that you might have one that you want to set for everybody. Have you got one that's related to what we've been talking about today?

[Vinny]
Yeah, absolutely Louise. I'm going to come back to that word respect. And if I can just shine a light again on that letter R. But before I do a little bit of a definition for you. We talked earlier about the whole piece around winning versus development. We are all competitive animals. Our youngsters, our teenagers, our adults, they want to go out and they want to be competitive and try and win a game of football. But let's remember that the word competition derives from the Latin competere, and it means to strive together. So if we can't be respectful to each other on the field of play, we're not going to have a game in the future. So with that idea of respect, let's remind ourselves, and this is my challenge to all coaches, can you try and build up a little bit of a relationship and positive rapport with the opposition coach? Maybe drop them a message rather than that email giving all the information about the game. Maybe drop them a message to try and engineer a conversation during the week. And in doing so, you're at least getting to know each other on first name terms. That way you've got a chance, both you and the opposition coaching team, your coaching team, the opposition coaching team, of being good role models, working together again to create that positive environment, that inspirational experience for everybody involved in grassroots football. That's my challenge.

[Louise]
Perfect. Thank you for that, Vinny. And as usual, it'd be really good for anybody to go in the community and discuss with everybody on there how it's gone, what kind of came up with those, any positive outcomes that you've had, share any tips or things that you've had.

[Jamie]
Yeah, I look forward to reviewing that and seeing that interaction on the community. Right, thanks for your time today, Vicky and Vinny. It's been great to have you both on today and you've given us and our listeners so many great top tips for helping deal with poor behaviour. And it's such an important topic to talk about as well because ultimately we want to create a fun, safe environment for everybody so that they can fall in love with the game and keep playing the game as well. So yeah, thank you very much for your time on. Hopefully you've enjoyed it and we'll see you soon.

[Jamie]
Right, that is all we have time for today, but don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football Community. This is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.

[Louise]
Yep, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.