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[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. I'm Jamie and I'm here with Louise and today we're chatting with Danny Fenner, an FA coach development officer, to hear about his journey so far and to talk about how coaches can help players develop their social skills. Well hi Danny, welcome back to the show, how are you?
[Danny]
I'm doing Well thanks, thanks for having us back.
[Louise]
Yeah, it's really nice to have you back on with us. For anybody who didn't listen to the episode that you were on before, can you do as a bit of a recap on what your role involves and what it is that you do here?
[Danny]
Yes, I've been working for the FA for 10 years and my role is a coach development officer and part of my role is supporting coaches on their journeys through qualifications or CPD events or doing mentoring and most of my work is done in the diversity inclusion space so working with coaches from black and Asian background and disability.
[Jamie]
Brilliant, well fantastic, thank you very much for that. Just before we kind of discover more about yourself, Danny, and your experiences, as this is a coaching podcast, coaches could be on the way to training right now while tuning into this, so we'd like to give them some top tips at the start of the show.
[Louise]
Yeah, and we sometimes call this the arrival activity, give you a bit of a warm-up into the session. What we're going to do is we're going to give you 30 seconds and we're going to ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can in those 30 seconds. Are you up for that?
[Danny]
Let's give it a go, 30 seconds.
[Louise]
Yeah so there'll be some music in the background so once that starts you can begin.
[Danny]
So passion I think would be one of my first bits as a coach. Just remember that you could be having a really bad day but just remember why you're doing it and you're doing it for the players. Also fun, friends and fitness. So the three things that I would say would be a real key top tips to have. So make sure it's fun, make sure that your players are having loads of play time with their friends and the last bit is to make it really exciting with the activity.
[Jamie]
Brilliant, I like that.
[Louise]
Fun, friends and fitness. Yeah, that's really nice to remember.
[Jamie]
Absolutely. Now Danny, it's been a while since you last joined us on Coachcast. I think it was back in 2022, so it's been a couple of years but back then we didn't actually get to delve into your story back then so we kind Of want to do that this time and we always start this little segment by asking What was your first experience of football like?
[Danny]
First experience of football I believe I was in primary school could have been year two or three, which would make me about seven or eight, and playing football in the playground with my friends. And one of my friends says, do you play for a football team? And I said, no. And he says, do you want to come to our football team? It's called Villa Court Rovers. We trained on a Saturday morning, went home, asked mum and dad if I could come and play football and they took me to the training session and yeah, that was it. It was from the playground, friend asked me, then went into a grassroots club and started playing. And so this would have been 1990, I know it's a long time away, and this is under eights, under nines and we were playing 11 v 11 football on a full-size football pitch so that's how long ago it was.
[Louise]
And did you enjoy it? Was it like a fun experience when you think back to it?
[Danny]
This is weird me saying this, I can't remember my debut But I do remember really enjoying playing football, being around friends, being part of something, kind of belonging. I don't know what it was. Was it wearing a uniform? Was it the badge? Was it the same purpose as people that was around me to try and score the other goal and stop the other goal going in? It's always been good memories.
[Louise]
I think sometimes it's just being part of something, isn't it? All of a sudden,
[Danny]
I think so. I don't think I was any good at it,
[Louise]
but that's fine
[Danny]
Yeah, no one really said that it's like we're all in it together.
[Louise]
Yeah, just enjoying yourself
[Jamie]
Yeah, and that's the way it should be as well, isn't it? When did your first interest in coaching start then? How did you get involved?
[Danny]
I kind of fell into it. So what happened is I finished doing my GCSEs at the age of 16, so I think it was 1998. I blamed the French World Cup actually, 1998, that's why I didn't get the grades that I was supposed to get. And instead of doing A-levels, I went into college and won a vocational award, it was called like a GNVQ, Leisure and Tourism. And part of the leisure strand was gaining your FA level one, which I'd done. I really enjoyed it, but part of it as well was being 16, mum and dad just like, you need to go and get a job. All right, cheers. So I went and worked at a leisure Centre, started as a cleaner and worked my way up into like a leisure rec and that. And part of your job was on a weekend to be a party host. So kids were coming for their birthday parties and you basically deliver birthday parties, setting up matches and whatnot. I kind of had a knack for it. I just really enjoyed it. You know, it was a good hour and a half. Sometimes you get a tip and it was, you know, it was as good as gold. So with that, with my FA level one, doing the party host, I was then fortunate working at a leisure centre. One of the attendees was a coach and said, do you fancy coming and do a bit of work for us? Went down, first session was basically, it was an October after, it was raining, it was cold, and I've only been used to doing birthday parties, but right in front of me were a bunch, I think I had about 15 to 20 year ones, year twos, so they were baby babies and it was just like, right, you've got them from 10 o'clock to 3 o'clock, keep them amused and it was
[Louise]
A long time.
[Danny]
It was like a three-day course and I got through it and I really enjoyed it And that's where I am right now. I didn't grow up thinking I was going to be a coach or anything like that. I kind of fell into it. It worked in the lifestyle that I was doing and yeah.
[Louise]
I guess it's the, there must've been things that you kind of just brought to it naturally because it didn't sound, doesn't sound like you got much guidance necessarily in what you were doing?
[Danny]
No, if I think about it now, and you know, coaches are really lucky to have this, you know, coach cast and FA learning and things that they can go to. The FA level one back there was, I believe like one or two days that we'd done. And it was like, literally, you've got the qualification, go and sort these five to six year olds out for five hours a day, be creative. And I suppose when you do get thrown into something, you know, you can sink or swim. And I think fortunately I swam for a bit. Yeah. Probably look after that elsewhere.
[Jamie]
Yeah. And What do you enjoy most about coaching then?
[Danny]
Supporting others and my main bit is around working with children. I like working with the five to eleven year olds. I like the fun aspect, the friends aspect of it and developing people and that's not necessarily them being the next Harry Kane or Ryan Sterling, it could be them just being really good people. So whether me developing them technically, physically with the fitness kind of element to it, when I talked about fitness and friends, but then the psychological bit, you know, helped them probably be better decision makers, but also build their confidence up, whether it be self-confidence. And then the social bit as well is, you know, really key for me. And if I can improve them on their journey in any of those four, yeah, sometimes I give myself a pat on the back and go, yeah, that's what I really like about coaching.
[Louise]
Yeah, it's a really important and rewarding role, I guess, for developing people. Can you give us a bit of an insight into what your journey was like from back then when you kind of first started coaching to where you are now?
[Danny]
Yeah, so my first experience was that October half term, roughly 1999, I'd done that and then I kept on doing it. I'd done a Saturday morning session, which is 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock, same thing, but obviously less hours. So I really got into that and I reached the age of 18 when I was doing the part-time role as a leisure assistant, part host and working part-time as a football coach. Everything came up about Camp America and I applied, I got it, I went out there, I started off in New England, say Massachusetts, Vermont. So I got a really big buzz from it, really enjoyed being in the States, enjoyed the travelling, enjoyed the coaching and working with kids. Came back home, got the opportunity to get my FA Level 2, got an opportunity to, when I came back from the last time from the States, to work for a company called NACRO, which is a crime prevention charity that worked with young people from the age of like 15 to 20, but using sport as a vehicle to help and support them. So with a football coaching background, being in the States, I was able to use that. And then that I was able to apply for another role and it was at Leighton Orient Community Sports Programme and during that time I got into my UA for B and working at the Community Sports Programme I was working with four to six year olds, I was working with 18 year olds, I was working with girls and boys, I was working in disability, I was working on estates, I was working after school, nursery, so I got a really holistic approach of what coaching is and I think that really developed me and obviously doing the UA for B helped me as well. I got a role at the Centre of excellence at that time at Leyton Orient, which is great. And then fortunately enough, I was able to then go to an organisation called Greenhouse, which was another sports charity that worked with kids from underrepresented communities and unprivileged areas as well in London. I was able to use my experience of working at Lakes and Orient and build like a football club there and work with football coaches at Greenhouse. And then I fortunately got the opportunity to then be an FA mentor. And then from an FA mentor, there was a role that came in with the FA, which I was able to become a FA coach developer. So from the space of 16 to 43, that's been my journey, you know, working in the sports industry, but not necessarily at a football club. Worked for a few charities in between that as well that delivered sports. So it just gave me a overview of what I can, I think you asked that question before about what do you like about coaching and some people could be it's because I want to get a player to become a professional footballer? I think my experience gave me the opportunity. What I really like coaching is to support people to be better people later on in life.
[Louise]
And a really varied experience of all the different types of people you can support which is so valuable.
[Jamie]
Taking in everything you've learned from your experiences so far then Danny, what advice would you potentially give to your younger self to help them get on in the world of coaching for the first time.
[Danny]
Connect more with other people and you might be saying well you worked in different companies and that but I mean it's like when you're on courses and you're sitting next to someone they might not be working in the same organisation as you but really connect and try and learn a little bit more about them and other people outside of football as well. I think that's a massive thing. You know, I've learned probably more in the last five years, not people in football, people outside of football, like TED Talks and things like that. I think it's really valuable. So if I had my chance again, they would be the three things that I'd go for.
[Louise]
And what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
[Danny]
The best advice that I've received would probably be from when I was at the first company I worked for where it was October half term and I turned up, the session starts at 10 o'clock, so I turned up at, you know, five minutes to ten. And I remember the guy, his name was Steve Kinch and he said to me, no, the session starts at 10, make sure you're at least 30 minutes before the session. Being on time is late to me. Being early means that you're prepared. So it's that, if you fail to plan, prepare to fail kind of basis and I've always had that in my head, you know, try to be early in whatever session that you're delivering and it just gives you a bit of time, breathing time, but that planning time as well.
[Jamie]
What piece of advice can you potentially give to some of our listeners or anybody watching this to help them make a positive impact on their players journey?
[Danny]
Make your players fall in love with the game. I think it would be the biggest advice that could make a massive impact on your players. Because coming away from it, as I said before, it's not about your boy or girl that you're coaching being a professional football player. But if you're making them a good human being but falling in love with football, hopefully we're building a generation that will come back as volunteers. And that could be a referee, it could be a physio, it could be a coach. And it's not just about the top of the pyramid where you might see the WSL and the premiership. It could be where we are at the moment at Grassroots and if you can make them fall in love with the game, hopefully when they get older they can bring that love back and hopefully doing a bit of a carousel where it goes round and around, wishful thinking.
[Jamie]
It's nice though isn't it, all about inspiring the next generation isn't it, and hopefully that they do the same as well. Now Danny the theme that we'd like to focus on today is social skills and maybe how coaches can help their players develop them. So just to start, how important is it for players to actually have good social skills when playing football?
[Danny]
I think it's really important to have good social skills. So I mentioned before about the reason why I love coaching is taking players on journeys and that's not necessarily technical, physical, psychological. The social bit is probably the bit that we might miss out quite a lot in terms of coaching, but we actually do do it. That's just recognising that you do do it. So I look at it in two ways. I look at it as that I'm preparing them for real life. So the bit around socially interactions with other people, as we know in this day and age with a tablet devices probably limits that interaction. So socially them coming to football, you can't do that. You can't use it. So you're developing them interaction wise, where hopefully that will take them when they go into the bigger, wider world, they'll help them. Also relationships, again, relationships can be formed not in person, because nowadays you could be playing someone all the way in China in a football game and you're building a relationship that way. But again, you know, bringing them into the real life, bringing football in and having those good social skills helps you build relationships and, you know, relationships with your family, your friends, could be your work colleagues. So, massively, socially, skills is really important in that way. To really narrow it down to football, I think it's really important that we build player social skills because it helps them with teamwork, because football is a team game. So they somehow have to find a way to work with their team. So building on the social skills. Second thing I'd think about is communication. Again, how do you communicate with your players? That's a social skill. And then football can help to do that. Third thing, behaviour, especially for the coaches that are probably dealing with the 5 to 16 year olds who are going through different changes in their lives or behaviour. Just them knowing what's good behaviour is also social skill, but then obviously you as a coach being a role model and role modelling that kind of behaviour. And lastly when it comes to football to have good social skills I think leadership it can build some really good leadership and that's not you being the next CEO of a company that could just you being a leader of yourself, a leader around people and to help people. So I think the football side of it and having those social skills and leadership is really crucial.
[Louise]
Yeah, all really important life skills that you kind of forget about sometimes. And especially now, like you say, with a lot of people with devices in front of them it's kind of you lose some of those things don't you?
[Danny]
Yeah I completely agree with that and as I said at the beginning of the question was or the answer was that most of the coaches that are listening to this right now are doing all of this stuff. That's just recognizing that you are doing it.
[Louise]
In your opinion, what do good social skills look like throughout the age groups?
[Danny]
Everything I've just mentioned I think goes through all of the age groups from the age of four to the senior game. You tell me a professional football player doesn't work on their social skills when it comes to teamwork or leadership, same as a four and six year old, but it looks differently. So my suggestion to coaches is that look at the age group that you're working with, think about what we've just spoke about in terms of what social skills we need to recognise, but then pinpoint how you're going to use that with that particular age group. So I'll give you an example. Leadership for a four to six year old probably look like in terms of asking them a question and, so for instance, can you try to put your foot on the ball? Fantastic, great job. Leo, can you, are you able to show Jasmine in the group how to put your foot on the ball? So it shows that little bit of, you know, leadership, but then that communication bit comes involved in it. And then if I'm talking about, you know, 18, 19 year old, when it comes to leadership, it could be social skills would be, can you try to do the team huddle for me before the game? Try to get the players revved up or motivated. Can you try and do the half-time team talk for me, so pinpoint players to show that. So there's different ways you can do it for different age groups. It's just you being really clever as a coach to go, what's in front of me at the moment, how do I, I use the word kidology, like for the younger ones, but then how do I make it more mature for the older ones.
[Louise]
Obviously like everybody's different so not everyone will be confident communicators. So do you have any top tips to help coaches work with more reserved and shy players to help them improve their social skills?
[Danny]
The top tip that I've learned and it's taken me a long time to actually do this is be okay with players being introverted. That's just society, you've got players that are extroverted, introverted. So if the player is shy, doesn't ask questions, is very reserved, sometimes it's okay, just be okay with it. So don't beat yourself up about it that I can't get this player to communicate or jump up and down and look like they're having fun. And I think culturally as well, and what I've learned is the bit in and around that not everybody's from the same backgrounds. So culturally it might look a bit different in the way that they might react to you in what you're asking him to do or developing. Race, , religion, all of that can come into play as well. So just think about the player's backgrounds. And if you are concerned about, you know, the player being introverted, ask questions to the parents, like, what is Joe like at home? What is really... Well, he doesn't say much at home, so it's not you, it's just where he is at that present time. Or it could be, you know, Sarah is really loud at home, but she's the only child, but she's come to the football environment and there's another 10, 12 other girls that are in this group so she doesn't feel like she can go and express herself in that way. So it might be socially you might need to get her in one-on-one situations where you might be able to get her to socially respond to you But just be okay with them being introverted.
[Jamie]
Yeah I think that's a really important message because when we're talking about good social skills it doesn't mean that everybody's shouting up, you know, everyone has to be like that sort of leader on a pitch, like it looks different to different people.
[Danny]
Yeah most definitely, just be considerate of the backgrounds and delve in a little bit as well. Another top tip maybe as well, you could speak to the child welfare officer of your club because there might be some underlining factors that you don't know about. It could be a disability, it could be a neurodiversity issue, anything like that, and again, if you're just considerate with it because you know it, it definitely can help you and support you.
[Jamie]
Purposely targeting say the social corner of the four corner model, how do you maybe integrate social development then into your coaching and practice design if you was really targeting it for a session?
[Danny]
I try and do it in arrival activities. I think that's the first aspect that I'd use the social skills to try and improve them on. So I'll give you an example, when the kids come in, we might do a bit of football tennis. You don't need to have nets, you could just use the cones and football tennis bounce over. And a challenge could be is to, if I'm with you Louise, it would be like, challenge is two questions you need to ask, favourite colour and what football team they support. We've finished playing our game, we've asked those questions, I'll then go over to yourself Jamie and the coach might shout out, all right, you need to ask two questions through this one minute game that you're playing, you know, where did you go on holiday and what's your favourite food? So you go round and around, you're doing this arrival activity, you're playing against different people, I'm socialising, communication, building relationships with people, And then the challenge at the end is, okay, I'm going to ask these questions, how many did you get right? Or with the players that you've been in and around. And it gets them to think, what was the first game that I played? Who did I play against? Oh yeah, the name's Louise. What was her favourite football team? Ah, it was... And that way, and then from there, we can build a relationship and talk about the Weezy's team losing at the weekend. And that's our social interaction there and social skills. So definitely try and use the reliability activities the best way possible to try and get that out.
[Jamie]
And how would you potentially build on from that in a session?
[Danny]
I think matches, and when I say matches, playing games and be okay for when the games are going on to take time to just stand back and watch the game going on and seeing what the social interactions are, see what social skills are being used, praise those social skills that are being used. So if it's little Danny who has celebrated a goal with John and you see them giving it a high five, what a great social skill interaction that they've just done there. Praise it. Fantastic. I love that celebration that you've just too, don't you? Where did you get that one from? So sometimes just playing games, standing back, observing it, and then just praising good social skills is one way that you can do it.
[Louise]
And I guess by observing you can kind of see where maybe some things are slightly missing and where you might need to bring things in.
[Danny]
Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. And I think to just put a layer on that as well, when we do talk about games, you always have to remember, like, what type of day did they have? Did they have double mass before they came to you? So are they all like, they just let all their emotions out as he or she just come out of detention. That's why they're at a bit low, but that gives you a chance as a coach to step back and go, yeah, Jamie doesn't look right there. And that can, you can have that one-to-one interaction and maybe hope to recognise what the problem is, but then maybe give them some skills to go over that problem.
[Louise]
As you just mentioned there, that actually playing a game is a really good way of kind of bringing out communication and social skills within it. What sort of communication do you want to see on a football pitch ideally?
[Danny]
I like to see positive reinforcements. So players actually communicating with each other and saying well done, Fantastic action what you've just done there. I like seeing players communicate with each other when a player has made a mistake of done and you know going, you know what, don't worry about it, it's okay. I like seeing players showing respect to the opposition because I think that's a really good social skill to have. Thinking about when they go into the bigger, wider world, what that might look like to strangers or people that you're competing with, just showing a bit of that respect. And also like seeing teamwork, you know, and that comes from different forms of, I think I mentioned before about them being maybe in a huddle and having a chat before the game. It could be them leading the warm-up, it could be during half-time having a team talk and whatnot. So I really emphasise when you do get a chance as a coach, try and give those players those opportunities to do it or recognise that they're doing it as well.
[Louise]
Do you think almost players giving each other feedback is helpful and how would you suggest that people maybe structure that feedback? Is there any tips that you might use there?
[Danny]
Yeah I suppose just praising when you see the action of the player, for instance, showing that intent of showing leadership, it's just praising it, like really make a real big deal of it. Louise, that was absolutely fantastic the way that you've just given Sarah that communication. So you know, you probably don't know that you've done it. But for me to really make a big thing about it as a coach, I think that could be one top tip and layering it. And maybe ask the question as well. Louise, what have you just done there? What? What have you just said to Sarah? What have you just said to her? Said, well done, fantastic. Why did you say that? Usually like 12 or 13 year old would be like, I don't know. But they might give you an answer to go, Oh, she's done a fantastic skill. She's gone past a player and she's gone and scored. Well done. Fantastic. Good job.
[Louise]
And I think that's then they can pass that. They start to reflect that between each other as well, I guess.
[Danny]
Your team will see that and go why has coach like really celebrated, he didn't celebrate the goal, he celebrated Louise being really positive interaction with Sarah. I want a bit of that.
[Jamie]
Is it a bit like, almost like what you're displaying they can kind of take in. So one of your previous answers was like you want players to show respect and you want them to praise and also like you know help people like when they've maybe made mistakes. Does that start from the coach effectively displaying those so it kind of feeds out into the team?
[Danny]
Yeah And the bit around the positive environment that you're trying to create as a coach leads into that. And especially in being role modeling, but we use that loosely, like every professional football player is supposed to be a role model. Well, we can dispute that because they didn't sign up to be a role model. But as a coach, I feel it's our duty to be role models to the players that we're working with. And us being role models is great. But then Sarah doesn't look like me, Sarah isn't me, so how can Sarah be a role model for her teammates, for her peers? So as a coach, how can you help them socially to be role models in their own field?
[Jamie]
Can you maybe share an example of a time you might have actually helped a player improve their communication skills on the pitch?
[Danny]
There's various examples that I can use. The one example I'd use is that trying to pair players up with each other. So you might have a player that's really motivated, shows really good leadership skills, but again is like really competitive with a player that's completely opposite. So that player that's really competitive, loud, does a lot of doing with the ball, can they hopefully translate that to the player who's probably a bit shy, like we talked about that introverted player, and that could be the tone of their voice. So your tone of your voice, does that help and support the other players that you're working with? And then using, say, player B who might be shy, introverted, it might not be them, you know, shouting because they don't want to, they don't feel comfortable doing it, but it might be giving them a top tip to go, you see what player A was doing on the ball, showing really good leadership skills there, You see what player A done in terms of how they try to motivate you. Do you reckon you might be able to try to do that in one way or the other? How might that look for you to try and motivate that other player and show those social skills? So try to buddy players up that are probably a bit opposite from each other so they can trade off.
[Louise]
Yeah, that's really useful and I guess I imagine lots of people can put that into a scenario that they work in.
[Jamie]
Yeah, I suppose like pairing them up as well, like kind of gets them more comfortable with each other as well doesn't it so then therefore they're more likely to start communicating a little bit getting to know each other and then obviously being able to translate that onto the pitch so this buddy system can actually be quite helpful.
[Danny]
Yeah most definitely buddy systems is probably the way forward in terms of that, used to your advantage.
[Louise]
How do you handle conflicts between players and use those moments as teaching opportunities for social development?
[Danny]
It's a real tricky one because I think every coach right now is probably thinking the same thing with the conflicts that they've got in their team and they're probably not even thinking about their son and daughter that they've got a conflict with. I would say, try and use a code of conduct. And that sounds really formal, but if you do it at the beginning of the season and you've got a code of conduct for players, parents and coaches, and they all read up to it and they sign up to it, you've got that opportunity to put some social skills in. So behaviour wise, you know, how do your parents behave on the sideline, how do you want your players to behave. As a coach, how do I role model and behave? You can put some leadership stuff in there as well. So using like the code of conduct would be really useful. Use parents, you know, they could be a really good icebreaker in terms of dealing with a conflict. It could be the same two children that go to the same school that have had a bit of issues within school and you know just getting a bit of background from the parents in regards to you know how have you guys dealt with it so I could be consistent and help them out. And one thing that I did learn and it was from a gentleman called Steve Smithies is when it comes to dealing with, you know, conflicts, try to listen to understand rather than listen to communicate. So as human beings, we're really good at listening, but yeah, I've got something in my head. I want to say something, but you're not really understanding what that person is saying. So if you have got two players that have got a conflict, try to really listen and understand where they're coming from. Give yourself a pause, maybe give yourself the session to then listen to communicate afterwards.
[Jamie]
Is that a thing that you can help the players develop as well that really listening to understand because that really feeds into empathy effectively like really listening to understand put yourself in another person's shoes to kind of understand maybe where where they're coming from in this conflict that these two these two players are having.
[Danny]
Yeah really good point Jamie and when it comes to that it's it's hard for us as adults to do it. So imagine what it must be like to kids because they want to be heard as well. So having little mechanisms that you can have within group talks in, you know, just putting your hand up. And once someone's put their hand up, we all listen. Okay, take a deep breath. Okay, does anyone wanna respond back to that? Have you got your hand up to respond back to it rather than shouting out? I think with the empathy bit, as time will go on, they will learn from that, developing empathy for others. But then also background-wise, you don't know what information they're getting back at home. So for the one hour that you've got, you might not be able to change the way that they feel the empathy. So, you know, talking about, you know, a player who's, you know, really forging ahead compared to a player who's striving to keep up. That forging ahead player might be really harsh on that player that's striving to keep up because the empathy level's not there yet. But as a good coach or trying to be a good coach, how do you build that social skill of that forging ahead player to go, look, she's not where you are at the moment, but for you being a good leader and a good communicator, you can get her up to that level from striving to keep up to coping to forging ahead. So how can you be a better person? But it's a really like you've seen the world at the moment, not enough people are listening to understand and rather listen to communicate.
[Louise]
On the pitch, each team has a captain and everybody associates that role with leadership, I guess. So with that in mind, how do you encourage leadership qualities with your players and what social skills are key that they develop to do that?
[Danny]
So the leadership bit in and around, you know, the captaincy, I think comes from role modelling. So and I think the role modelling comes from us as coaches at the start. So if you are shouting at the referee or quizzing the referee at every decision they make, or having arguments with parents on the sideline or with your subs and stuff like that, your captain is looking at you going, well that's good behaviour, that's alright, you're our coach, we're going to be looking at you. So I think it starts with us as coaching, the coach is our role model. So I'll give you an example, before every match I'll go to the opposite coach, I'll shake their hand, I'll just talk about football or talk about life in general. Referee, I always call the referee sir and I nick that from rugby because in rugby they call the referee sir and you know again that just shows me role modelling, you know what respect is to the officials. I always, at the end of the game, will go to the opposition player, a opposition player, and go, you see you, you were absolutely fantastic, it was an absolute pleasure to watch you. And that's my players watching me do that, so that's good role modelling. In terms of the skills that you need as a player to be a leader or as a captain, a bit of maturity, a bit of learning from your mistakes as well, because no one's perfect. You know, you put someone as a captain and as a leader and they're not going to be perfect, but it's having that bit of reflection at the end of the game. Well the way that you reacted there with the referee, was that acceptable? No. How can you prove that for next time? So just learning from your mistakes is really crucial. You talked about empathy, I think as a captain, leader, you need to be empathetic with the players around you, and also empathetic to your opponents as well. And I think lastly, a skill that you would have as a leader, captain, is that bit of resilience. Are you showing the best of you when you're 3-4-0 up and you're really dominating the game? Or are you showing the best of you where you're really struggling in the game and you have to dig deep and you might be losing the game? That's where I think a bit of resilience comes out as well and that can be demonstrated to the rest of your peers on the pitch. So I think as coaches a top tip would probably be is if you do select someone as a leader or as a captain, it's not when things are going really well, it's what they do, is when things are not going the way that you want them to be.
[Jamie]
And developing that sort of resilience and like adaptability to those situations, obviously it's tough, no one wants to be losing, but is that again through the coach displaying the resilience and adaptability just to go, it's okay, keep going a little bit of positivity to kind of give to the player or can you help them develop resilience in other ways other than just role modelling that behaviour yourself?
[Danny]
So you can role model behaviour as you just said there. I think the experience bit comes into it. So if you're playing competition and you're winning week in, week out, don't be surprised when you do get that result that doesn't go against you, that your players are not able to deal with it. So I suppose one way you can do with it is a variety of football. So a bit of different diet of football. So if the competition is a bit too easy for you, you might need to make friendlies that you're playing an age group one year older than you, or you're playing with less players against a team and you can manufacture it that way to do it. But as I said before, experience is really key of it and real life scenarios. But it's when the chips are down, it's when you probably see a lot of these social skills to be fair, that we've just talked about, that's when it either comes out or it's not displayed. So the more times you put them in those situations, the more time that they can feel it, see it and do it, make a few mistakes, which we do. And then from those mistakes, hopefully put it into practice where we're making really good decisions.
[Jamie]
So thinking about developing resilience, I'm just trying to think like outside of match day, is there anything that you can do at training? Like please correct me if I'm wrong, but like I'm just trying to think like if you maybe play tournaments for instance and then they're experiencing winning and losing is that something that you could potentially do at training?
[Danny]
Yeah most definitely those small-sided games you know you've got 12 players at training day why don't you just do two pitches have 3v3 games make it into a tournament you know put some team names into it add points you know three points for a win two points for a draw one for a loss have that winning and losing element at the end of it, like this is the champions, this is the team that finished bottom, okay, how are they reacting at the moment, can I see their behaviours, what are they going to, how are they going to demonstrate their behaviours the following week, knowing they were bottom of the group? The team that finished top, how are they going to demonstrate, like character wise, are they going to go up as an opposition and shake hands and whatnot, are they going to show their social skills that we don't really want to see when they're older, going into the workplace, being really too *** and stuff like that. So you can use that as a really great idea, like little tournaments and that within your actual training session. You can use some constraints as well. So this one game that I do do is called the 1-0 game. So basically what happens is, you know, you say you've got 10 players for a training session, you play a 5v5 game and it starts off as 0-0, Luiz's team goes and scores, you're 1-0 up. But Jamie's team, you have got 45 seconds to go and score a goal. Okay. Louise's team, if you can keep them out for 45 seconds, you've won. It's game over. It's all good. Jamie's team, if you can score within those 45 seconds, it makes it 1-0, it goes back to 0-0. Alright, the game resets. But the only problem is Louise's team. If the ball goes out of the field, even if Jamie's team kicks it out, it's their ball. Are you talking about coach? No, no, no, no, You just have to deal with it. The chips are down. You need to go and deal with it. Okay. So you can manipulate some kind of games like that. I've done it before and I've seen it before where you're planning for a game on Sunday and it might be the county cup semi-final. Playing a game, it's 7v7, whatever it is, and in a training session you go, all right, stop there, there's five minutes to go in the game, you guys, you're 2-0 up in this county cup final. You guys, well, we've just been playing, yeah, don't worry, I've just changed the score line, how are you going to deal with it now knowing that you've got to score two goals? How are you going to deal with it now knowing that you've got to score two goals? How are you going to deal with it knowing that you've got two goals and you're going to play? So as a coach, think about how you can put those little constraints on the game to help the player's decision making. Probably links more to the psychological corner, but then you can start seeing their behaviour. What leadership qualities have they got? How they show empathy to others and everything that we talked about before about the social skills like communication and that.
[Louise]
And if we think about like parents and guardians, we've kind of talked a lot about players and what have you, but how do you involve parents and guardians in the process of improving players' social skills do you think?
[Danny]
So what I use, I've got a sheet and it came from, the FA developed it, it's called the Five C's, they've done some research at Loughborough University and there's actually a sheet for parents and that's improving the players' confidence, commitment, control, concentration and communication. So they're the five C's that you can help improve the players on. And that all delves into that social corner as well, in social skills. So I'll give you an example. So if we talk about giving the sheet to the parents because you want to improve David's confidence. It's how you as a parent communicate with them after the game. You know, that can help them with their confidence. So think about your tone of voice. Thinking about the commitment of the player. Again, I praise for effort. So sometimes you talk about praising for results, like the kids will get praising for the result they do, but not the effort that they put in. So again, a top tip from a parent guardian would be, praise your child for their effort. Again, that can help socially. Control, how they control their feelings and behaviours is a big one. Try to, as a parent, make them feel relaxed before a game or before a training session. You know, you've got a key role in doing that. So, you know, you can be really influential in that. Thinking about the fourth one, concentration. We all want our seven and eight year olds to be really, you know, on the ball when it comes to the game and concentrating, but we know that's hard. But make sure that you're not a distraction, especially when it's on match day. So thinking about you being on the sideline, you know, how can you support your players' concentration on the field? And if it's you shouting all the time or giving information that's completely different to what the coach is doing, you know, maybe think twice about that and think about how you might be a distraction on the field. And lastly is communication. How you as a parent can help your players support others. So we talked about an instance, you know, player A and player B, our day-to-day trade-offs. You as a player parent might see that on the pitch. So on that car ride home or during the week, it's like can you give your players some top tips on how to communicate with others and help to support them. So yeah that's the five C's and you can look it up on FA Learning, I think it's a research that was done at Loughborough University and that's the PDF that I use and give to the parents before every season to go and use.
[Jamie]
Thinking about communication it's not always necessarily about actually verbal so it's much more than speaking So what methods do you maybe use to teach players about the importance of like body language and nonverbal communication?
[Danny]
The bit about the body language, like I'm thinking about myself right now, I'm cross-legged and I know like body, not body therapists, what are they called? The bodice language people that...
[Louise]
I was trying to think of the name.
[Danny]
They would say that I'm really closed off doing that. I'm just really comfortable with my legs crossed. So it's that bit about, you know, we talk about the inverted, the place that introverts that probably don't say much. They're just probably comfortable, they're all right. It could be a cultural bit, it could be a facial expression. You know, you get those some people that you tell a joke and they're laughing inside, but you see their face and you go, I just told a joke there, you know, I want you to give me something. So as a coach, be okay with that, with body language. But what you might be able to promote when it comes to body language and really supporting them like positively on it is, I like a goal celebration. You know, if you, if you score a goal, you know, it's your team mate, can you come up with a goal celebration, you know, nothing too untowards the opposition, keep it respectful, you know, little things like thumbs up, a clap, you know, just giving a clap when you're on the pitch, high fives. And as I said before, try not to be too drawn into the player, not showing any facial expressions or being a bit closed off. We don't know what a day's like being at school. We don't know what it's like culturally. We don't know if it's just them as a person. As long as they're doing the okay stuff on the field for you with the ball and their behaviour is good, you take the two out of three in terms of that.
[Louise]
I think as well, the more you get to know a player and you understand their range of like when they're excited and when they're not excited. It might be different to other people, but you, you'll probably be able to pick up on when they are actually engaged and when they're not, like, because it will be different for each person.
[Danny]
Yeah. And you know, in America it's really big with high fives. Like some kids don't like high fives...Yeah you know it's a really good question actually because I'm looking at the players that I've worked with and The players that probably didn't show that emotion that you want them to show because you're all the time didn't you on? TV shows and radio about listeners will phone in and say they didn't show any passion. Doesn't mean they didn't care. Just because you're not shouting about and you're not crying and you're not laughing doesn't mean that you don't care and not showing any passion. Just do it a bit differently. And I think we mentioned it before, just try and understand the players that you're working with and what kind of behaviours they show and try to be okay with it.
[Jamie]
Well, looking back at everything we've discussed so far, Danny, can you summarise maybe the key top tips you would like people to take away from this episode?
[Danny]
The key top tips that I would say in terms of developing social skills and being aware of social skills is try to provide that safe environment, you know that probably be my first bit, make sure that it's safe and it's a positive environment So your players can express themselves within the social corner and developing within that. Second bit is be consistent with your approach. So, and that's a real hard one. You've got 11, 12 in a squad. I can think of like the coach that are listening to this, that are driving to a session right now and going, how can I be consistent with the 12 players within the team? I think that comes down to your code of conduct. If your code of conduct is there and it's on point, that will help you be consistent through your terminology and your delivery in developing social skills. Look at yourself as a role model. You're not perfect, none of us are perfect, but if you're showing some good traits as a role model, that will then filter down with your players. So if your players are showing bad behaviour, bad leadership, bad communication, maybe look at yourself first and go, am I doing all the right things first? Am I respecting the referee, the opposition coach, my own players, the opposition and things like that. So look at yourself first and then delve in like backgrounds, culturally and stuff like that to try and get a true understanding about role models. Social skills, making sure that we talked about at the start, that's the on the field stuff and the off the field. So keep that consistent that whatever you do off the field, it's the same kind of social skills you'll use on the field. We don't separate it, be exactly the same in regards to that and just try to, you know, get them to recognise that as well. The outside world is the football world, the football world is the outside world, just put the two together. And lastly, to all the coaches, we all do it. We are all developing our players in one way or the other socially and in those skills. You're doing it by putting games on, you're doing it by observing, you're being it by being a role model, teaching them leadership skills, communication skills. So give yourself a pat on the back for doing all of that. But I think the thing to recognise now is that you are doing it. And once you know that you're doing it, you can continue doing it as well and maybe adapt and reflect on it a little bit more further.
[Louise]
And if we were to ask you to set a challenge for coaches to kind of maybe have a go at some stuff to do with social skills, what would you set them to have a go at?
[Danny]
I would set them the challenge of using the five C's. And that will be as coaches, how you support your players and their communication, how you support their control in terms of their behaviour, their emotions, how you support them in their confidence to maybe show that leadership trait or be able to speak in front of people. And lastly, would be concentration. Now, just to help them concentrate on what's going ahead and what's in and around them. So I would say the five C's, well, I talked about parents doing as a coach. My challenge would be, can you develop your players within these 5Cs?
[Jamie]
Right well we are coming up to the end of the show now Danny but it does mean it is time for our swift session feature.
[Louise]
Yep so you may remember this from last time Basically we give you 30 seconds to explain to us a session idea in those 30 seconds. Are you up for this challenge?
[Danny]
I'm gonna give it a go.
[Louise]
Okay we've got some music again so once that starts you can begin.
[Danny]
Okay so my game is very easy it's an arrival activity and it's called World Cup Football. Players come in, they can play as ones or they can play in pairs or they can be in groups of three. We've got one goal, We've got one ball, coach can go and goal, the goalkeeper can go and goal, and basically, keep the ball out, and the players will just play in their teams against one goal. It's absolutely manic, it's mayhem. First team to score wins, or the amount of goals that you score will make you the winner.
[Louise]
Perfect, that's a good one. Sounds fun as well.
[Danny]
Easy.
[Jamie]
Well, thank you very much for that Danny. It's been great having you back on the show and being able to dive into your story and also hear your top tips and insights. It's been great to listen to. So thank you very much. Hopefully you want to come back on again one day in the future
[Danny]
as well. I really appreciate you having us and just well done to all the coaches that are giving up their time doing this.
[Jamie]
Absolutely echo that.
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Jamie]
Right, well, that is all we have time for today. But don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football community and this is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.
[Louise]
Yep we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions so please do check it out. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast so if you haven't already hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.