Please Note: The transcript is automatically generated by Supertranslate.beta in case you come across any typos or misquotes during your reading.            

[Jamie]

Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. As always, we're Jamie and Louise, and for the final episode of this season, we're chatting to Vinny Halsall about creating a thriving learning environment for your players. Well, hi Vinny, welcome back to the show. How are you?

[Vinny]

Hi Jamie, hi Louise. Lovely to see you both again. And yeah, really looking forward to sharing a few thoughts, a few ideas, particularly around a thriving learning environment in our world of grassroots football.

[Louise]

Well welcome back, it's always really nice to have you on. Absolutely. For anybody who hasn't heard an episode that you've been on, where have you been? But also, could you just remind everybody what it is that you do?

[Vinny]

Yeah, it's been an interesting time within the grassroots coach development team. As you know, we've moved to working now out of the grassroots division, which to be honest so far has been a pretty smooth transition. But my key role is within the grassroots coach development team, supporting our coaches for me specifically across the southwest of England and also that PE officer role, which is about supporting teachers, trainee teachers, again across the southwest of England through our universities, our girls football schools partnership, so that variety of the role which is fabulous and keeps me excited and engaged. So yeah that's what's been happening in the last 6 to 12 months.

[Jamie]

Lovely. Well Vinny, you're no stranger to this show, so you know what's going to come next. Absolutely. You know at the top of the show, we really like to give our listeners some key top tips to take away because they might be heading to training for instance and they're just like to give them some good information to start.

[Louise]

We're going to ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can in 30 seconds. Are you up for that?

[Vinny]

Absolutely, I'm very mindful of the 30 second time limit so I'm actually going to go with four top tips once we get going.

[Louise]

Okay, well, when the music starts, you can begin.

[Vinny]

So I'm going to frame this around the concept of a good learning environment. And the good is simply goals, opposition, orientation, and direction. If I could encourage our coaches to always think when they are planning and then delivering their session, if their session can include those features. And goals doesn't necessarily mean a goal at both ends and I'll delve into that later on when we do our final session explanation. But a good session design.

[Louise]

Lovely, I like that.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to diving into that for the main part of the show for sure. I think you last joined us for an episode that went out back in January last year if I remember rightly so you gave us a little bit of an intro into what you're doing now, but how have you been personally and what have you been getting up to?

[Vinny]

Yeah personally I'm great, obviously the day job as always a privilege to do what I do and it's great to be here again as I've already said. In terms of away from the day job, I'm very fortunate to be able to work as a grassroots committee member and coach, now of an under 16 squad. I think the first time I was on, they were probably under 13s. And so that development has been fabulous because as with everything you know I believe in every day is a school day and there's been so much learning for me personally and professionally. I've had these many of these boys since they were under sevens so that journey has been absolutely fabulous and listen when I'm talking to teachers, trainee teachers, grassroots coaches, it's great to be able to relate to what I did last week as opposed to what I did 10 years ago when I was still in teaching. In terms of the day job specifically, as you know there's a massive program building and developing at the minute called Future Fit. So being in the grassroots division, we've been integrally involved in the delivery of 46 workshops across the country. Obviously, they've been divided up across our regions. So it's been great to meet with our grassroots communities, talk about the Future Fit program. The headline, of course, is everyone comes to it thinking that we're simply going to talk about the 3v3 format, but there are changes further down in terms of the older age groups, those transitions to the bigger format of the game. So that's been a really enjoyable piece of work, challenging at times, but as we know challenge is a good thing as well sometimes being out of your comfort zone. So yeah that's been the feature of my work in the last six months or so.

[Louise]

I suppose it's really nice like coming to it from both sides, so in your day job but also as a kind of a coach yourself and kind of been able to see how those things will apply.

[Vinny]

Yeah, I think it helps. And you know, our topic today about a positive learning environment. To me, those roadshows are a learning environment and like anything, and again, I'll delve into this, relationships are so important. So Louise, if you were at one of the events, you know, if we didn't know each other, but I was able to relate to you by saying, you know, forget the badge for a moment, I'm also a grassroots coach and grassroots committee member, I know what the challenges are going to look like because my club is going through it as well. So I think that's relatability and building those relationships. It's such a key part of what we do, isn't it?

[Louise]

Yeah. And you mentioned before that you've learnt so much. Is there anything interesting that you'd like to pass on? The stuff that you've learnt over this time?

[Vinny]

I think I'm going to go with the concept, you know I love an acronym, so I'm going to go with ALF for this one. Active Listening First. So really important within those environments, but again any learning environment. We need to listen to what the children, the teenagers, the adults in this case with the roadshows, you know what they have to say and the really strong piece of work with colleagues who actually designed the whole format and the process. Every coach, every committee member, every league representative, every County FA representative that went to those workshops, they had a voice, they had an opportunity to pose questions primarily through the QR code, but there was loads of opportunity for Q&A and if the events that you went to are anything like the ones I went to, finishing at nine o'clock and we weren't leaving the room at times till ten to ten, ten o'clock, so yeah that active listening first is such an important part.

[Jamie]

Now as you say Vinny, you've joined us today to talk about a thriving learning environment and creating that environment for your players to really support them. So to start, what does a thriving learning environment mean to you?

[Vinny]

I think three things. First of all, you've got to give the group that you're working with ownership. And I'll delve into depending on how time runs through, but you guys might be familiar with self-determination theory. Psychologists Ryan and Deci, and they actually talk about the whole value in some sort of autonomy. So the players need to have an element of ownership. They also need to feel and experience that they are learning and developing, they are improving, and along with that, there needs to be an element of challenge going on. If things are too easy, then anybody would get bored. And with that challenge comes support. So you've probably seen the matrix that talks about high levels of support and high levels of challenge. And if we actually see that matrix as four quadrants, then the top right hand corner is where there's high levels of support and high levels of challenge. The bottom left corner is low levels of support and low levels of challenge. So I think those three things are really important in any learning environment but specifically within that grassroots space where we are working with our youngsters for two, three hours maximum and I'm saying two, three hours because we're talking about maybe a single hour for practice sessions and then obviously your matchday.

[Jamie]

I was just going to ask, how, and this might be unfair because we might delve into this a little bit later on, but how can coaches potentially make sure they've got that support and challenge balance right then in their environment?

[Vinny]

Getting to know your players, that's got to be the most important piece. And in getting to know your players, I know there's potentially a question coming through later on in terms of, you know, how can you really identify your players in terms of their strengths, their areas for development. And so I think that's, I'm going to call it the art of observation. Yeah. Observing your players in action and not feeling as if you always have to be intervening. Yeah. You know, later on, we'll talk about them having voice and choice as well, but certainly giving them an opportunity to play and for you to see how they are performing within it might be a new practice, a new game that you've set up that week. But that art of observation is so important. Good Coaching isn't always about the coach being front and centre. Sometimes it's about being the guide on the side and actually using your eyes, using your ears, using your senses just to really see, hear and feel what's going on within that environment.

[Louise]

What would you say is the key thing that makes it so important to have a thriving learning environment?

[Vinny]

The players, whether they're 6, 16, 26, they want to feel as if they are learning. And that learning might be an individual piece, it might be in units, it might be as a whole team, as a whole squad. And that active learning as well is so, so important. If you've got a positive environment where learning is front and centre, sometimes it's maybe a bit more hidden. It's more implicit. So, it might not be that there are specific coaching points being shared within the session. But yeah, that opportunity for everybody to feel as if they are improving, and by everybody, I'm including the coach there as well. I think it's really, really important. If I could go to a phrase that I've started to use more and more, It's also coaching with kindness and coaching with care. We know that mantra, we've heard it very often. It's been on this coach cast a number of times, that people will actually care how much you know when they know how much you care. And so that idea of coaching with kindness and coaching with care, as opposed to perhaps coaching with criticism. And I use that word very, very carefully. Again, we can delve in later on if we feel that's where the conversation needs to go. But I think a lot of coaching at times is from observing mistakes. And for me, that's not the best way to coach because we want that positivity, we want our players to appreciate that they are going to make mistakes and that's okay as long as, coming back to your question, they learn from those mistakes. But they want to as well, they're not going out there to make mistakes.

[Louise]

On a kind of really simple level, there's an element of pride when you learn stuff and you kind of, and that's a really nice thing to kind of, that keeps people coming back to something if they feel proud of themselves. Yeah. It's a really key thing for players to feel, but also coaches as well.

[Vinny]

And If I can come back to the self-determination theory, the theory in its very simplest terms, it talks about autonomy, relatedness and competence. Now I, through various CPD events I've gone to, I saw a really nice version of that that talked about the ABC, autonomy, belonging and competence. So what you're referencing there, Louise, is that this idea of competence. We do things as human beings. It's natural. We do things, we enjoy things most when we've got a level of being good at it. Yeah. And of course, there's going to be times where, again, you need to be out of your comfort zone and try things that you're not so good at. E.g. Working to develop for me, let's say myself as a young player, the use of my left foot, for example. But that whole idea of being good at stuff, being competent at stuff. And also as coaches shining a light on that, and that's where I talked earlier about this idea of coaching with kindness and coaching with care. Let's try and shine a light on the stuff that we're seeing that's good, catching them in rather than catching them out. But everybody wants to be told today we're here today this is our job we're privileged to do it but we're wanting to do a good job and we want to say to each other at the end of this well done that was really good now of course the punters might have a different view But that whole idea of being good at stuff and people recognising that and shining a light on it is so, so important.

[Jamie]

Yeah, definitely. When we talk about a thriving learning environment, you've mentioned that when you first came on this show, you was working with like under 13s and now doing the under 16s. Has your approach changed to that environment at all during that time or even in teaching at all, like to create a thriving environment?

[Vinny]

I'm going to say an emphatic yes. You know, let's go all the way back to when I was seven, eight years of age, the element that I'd just come out of teaching and my style in the, I've been coaching and teaching now for 35 years. I know Louise, I don't look that old, thank you. But in all seriousness, when I talk to coaches and teachers about, think about trying this method, that's because I've actually gone through that process of thinking, hang on, that maybe command style all the time, yeah, being the sage on the stage, being front and centre of everything all the time, yeah, that to me now, it's purely an opinion, isn't the best way to do it. Coming back to your question Jamie about that transition from 13 to 16. Those young boys have now turned into young men. And so their voice is even more important. I referenced right at the get go about the importance of giving them ownership. So it's an emphatic yes, because I've tried to give them more and more ownership. For example, the use of player surveys. I would have referenced that in the last time we were together. I've done that more consistently and more often because I need to hear from them. The world of the teenager, let's think about their world. They went through COVID as young children and therefore along with the use of devices, and we won't dive down that rabbit hole now, but their communication skills in a group are not as strong as they might be, but it's for good reason because of all the things that they've experienced in those golden years of learning, you know, that five to 11 age group. I think about our own son who's 15 going on 16 now. So I've worked really hard to encourage them to have their voice through the use of surveys. I'll talk about match days a little bit later on, but through the use of surveys to find out what they want and what they need. And if I can give you a powerful example, we are delving a little bit away from the environment in terms of, you know, that practice session, that match day, that series of. These boys now are about to move into further education and in terms of further education, whatever that looks like, I've had to, not had to, I chose to put out a survey to find out boys what you want to do next year because you have a number of options. Number one, we can say goodbye. Yeah, that's the end of the journey. Number two, we've got the option of carrying on with the programme on a Saturday morning, which is a really high level of football. Number three, we can have the option or you can have the option of trying to carry on with a Sunday programme as well. And that wasn't coming from me. I wasn't dictating to the boys, this is what we're doing because as I say they've gone from being boys at 13, 12, 13 to young men. So hearing their voice has actually formed our decision in terms of what we are doing with our under 16 age group.

[Louise]

And I guess that really allows them to, they've made those decisions, then it's something that they want to commit to or try and stuff, so it's half the battle, I guess, of trying to engage them and keep them interested.

[Vinny]

Yeah, absolutely. And also I talked earlier about ALF, active listening first. I'm saying to, our season is almost come to an end now, I'm saying to the boys quite regularly now, by the way, you filled in that survey three months ago, if you change your mind, get in touch. Yeah, and that's really important as well in terms of those relationships and those connections. But I hope that answers your question, Jamie, in terms of hearing their voice. You know, I'm very strong on the use of surveys. I never used to, by the way, again, for coaches and teachers out there listening to this. It wasn't something I'd ever really thought about doing. But as COVID brought about an enhancement of our use of the digital world, such a great way of actually hearing what they have to say and with a squad of 18 young boys or teenage boys, that's powerful. There's some really rich stuff in there.

[Jamie]

Yeah, no, it really is. And like you've both mentioned, just the importance of getting their voice. It is their choice, like they own that sort of environment and contribute to that. It is really powerful. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.

[Vinny]

No, my pleasure. I think it speaks as well to the whole thing about developing the person as well as developing the player, which again is an oft-used mantra, certainly with our organisation in terms of FA learning and the FA, you know, as a broader organisation and also that concept of whole child and whole player development, hearing their voice, finding out more about what's in their heads. Yeah, it's so, so important.

[Louise]

So if we were to think about a training session, what does a thriving learning environment look like in that scenario, would you say?

[Vinny]

Again I'm going to stick with the power of three. So there needs to be high levels of activity time. And if we want to use the term ball rolling time, then, you know, let's go with that as well from our days of England DNA, which still, you know, it's still there, isn't it? We never throw the baby out of the bath waters as things have evolved. So high levels of activity. So typically coaches are going to have an hour's practice session per week. Of course, there'll be variations on that, but you know, typically, and I would encourage coaches to try and aspire to get something like 45 minutes of activity time. Yeah. So what are the other 15 minutes filled with? Well, they are filled with a little bit of coach talk. They are filled with obviously a little bit of, you know, have a break, go and grab some water, et cetera, et cetera. There might be some time filled with those transitions from one part of your practice session to another. So that'd be my first one, high levels of activity time. I've already talked about player ownership and player decision-making. If we go specifically with that, that is so important. They need to have loads of opportunities to make decisions within practice sessions. And then finally, there needs to be, again, you won't be surprised to hear that element of learning. They need to feel, perceive, that they are actually learning stuff. And it might not be stuff that's brand new. It might be stuff that is consolidated. So take any age group that we want to within that's six or seven up to 16. A week in their lives is a long, long time and therefore it really is important that your practice sessions have an element of linking the learning. Whatever you worked on last week, if it was the first time you worked on a new theme last week, hopefully that merged into your match day at the weekend. And it also needs to be front and centre the week after. Otherwise that opportunity for the youngsters to actually consolidate their learning, to retrieve some stuff that's in their brain somewhere, and also then to build on it. That's really important.

[Louise]

Yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it? If you don't, if you sometimes, if you learn something and leave it, it's gone. So it's kind of.

[Vinny]

One of the sad things about us as humans is that as soon as we've learned something, as you say, we start forgetting it. You know, when if we were doing some sort of CPD event now in terms of a piece of learning and listen, there's going to be something that I'm going to learn today from, you know, your questions and something that will trigger. But as soon as we walk out those doors, we'll start forgetting it again. So it's so, so important to retrieve it, consolidate it, and obviously take it from being in your short-term memory to your long-term memory in terms of our brains can only hold so much information.

[Jamie]

Just going back to something that you mentioned in that answer there, which was obviously giving, again, just reiterating the point of giving players a bit of a voice and a choice. What in your sessions does that look like? I'm just trying to think of maybe new coaches that might be listening to this thinking what sort of things do you get your players to make decisions on basically to shape their own learning?

[Vinny]

I think in very simple terms I'll use an example that I've had as part of my coaching and my content for the past 10 years. I'm a great believer in the power of three. One of the concepts has been this word three-mendous, which isn't a real word, but it actually links to the word tremendous. So I've always talked to the boys about, you know, would you like your performance individually as a team to be tremendous? Yeah, yeah. You can imagine on your seven, eight year olds, buying, getting the parents to buy into this as well, this concept of, we're talking about the word tremendous, but I framed it as three-mendous. So where am I going with this? Well, every time a player receives the ball, for me, if they've got an opportunity to make a decision for three things. So in possession, number one, can I run with the ball? Number two, can I dribble with the ball? Number three, and I'm going to use the term send the ball, which links a little bit to terminology within national curriculum PE. That is my day job at the end of the day. So sending the ball might be, can I pass the ball? Can I shoot the ball? Can I cross the ball? So giving the youngsters that awareness that every time they receive the ball, play with your head up, you know what's coming, like in meerkat. And in doing that, think about how your performance can be three-mendous Tremendous. Yeah, and if you've got three options Then your opponent is always guessing because I'm gonna bounce one back to you, too What do you think typically when young players get the ball, coaches from the sideline, if they are, PlayStation coaches shouting on, what do you think typically they're shouting on for the players to do? Imagining pass the ball. Pass it, pass it, pass it. So you're limiting, you're stealing an opportunity for the children to have decisions. So when I'm talking about player decision making, that's a very, very simple example of using the power of three. Can they do one of those three things? And it's their decision because listen, if they are on the pitch, let's give a really simple example. In the middle of the pitch and they are looking, I talked earlier didn't I, about good practice design. Well this is where the orientation, yeah one of the letter O's is orientation, and that child is actually, or teenager or adult player, is facing straight down the pitch. What they are seeing from that halfway line to the opposition's goal, they're facing forward, is very different Louise. If you're the coach of the sideline, it's very different to what you're seeing. Yeah, number one, because they are, let's say 10 years of age. And number two, you or I, we're a bit older. So first of all, they're looking through 10 year old eyes, but they are also seeing a different picture. So that's where we need to give them the opportunity through good practice sessions to be constantly making decisions every time they receive the ball.

[Louise]

And I guess by having a chance to make a decision themselves, it'll either work out or it won't. And then they've got a reference point to kind of go from next time.

[Vinny]

So absolutely, absolutely. That's that information processing whereby their decision on this occasion to have a touch out their feet and run with the ball. Yeah, if you've got a coach shouting pass it, pass it, pass it, the pass might not be the right option. They run with the ball, they manage to make grounds, maybe then pass the ball to a teammate, teammate scores, there's your whole piece around, the coach is shouting pass it, catch them in, don't catch them out. The only thing that should be happening then is Jamie, fabulous, well done, thumbs up in terms of it was their decision. So let's not steal the decision from our young players because that's how they develop and learn.

[Louise]

Would you say that on match day there's any difference to this approach?

[Vinny]

It shouldn't be but the matter of the fact that is and I'll come to, I talked earlier about coaching with kindness, yeah, and being kind in your approach to your coaching. Just reference again about catching them in, not catching them out. I think as a coach, you've got to have a strong sense of self. Yeah. You've got to really understand what your purpose is. Now, if your purpose is simply the only way your match day environment is going to be positive is if your team wins the game by scoreline, then you're missing a trick. Now that's not to say we don't want our young players, our teenage, our adults to be competitive. Of course we do. Yeah. But the whole idea of if you are going to be consistent from your practice sessions to your match day, you've got to have that really strong sense of self, that strong purpose. Why am I doing this? And if you go back to what I said earlier, why do I do what I do? Well, I want my players to have ownership, linking back again to self-determination theory. Yeah. Unless you give them that opportunity, that chance to be autonomous, then they're probably going to fall out of love with the game. Certainly when the youngsters get to the age that my boys are at now, 16 years of age, they're going to stop playing. Yeah. You also need to give them that opportunity for them to make the decisions. And therefore in the hurly burly of a competitive match day environment, if your self sense of self is, I also want them to learn and develop. Therefore, you know, that will happen best if you allow them to make decisions. And those decisions, by the way, and I'll delve into this shortly, is whilst they're playing, but also the team talks before the game, at halftime and at the end of the game, how much ownership can we give our players then rather than that being constant coach voice. So those bits are really important. If you've got a strong sense of self, then you've got a better chance of the environment that you create on a match day, looking and feeling very, very similar in terms of what's happening when you're within your practice sessions and actually having that crossover. But the emotions on a match day are some of the things that we are all challenged with at times.

[Jamie]

It leads in nicely to the next question, which is, how do you manage to sustain a thriving learning environment amongst the emotions of the game that the game might actually bring, but as you mentioned people are competitive and they do also want to win. How do you still ensure that the developing and learning and focusing on that rather than it just being the scoreline?

[Vinny]

Yeah, for me that's a long term process. You know, when we're talking about the word education, it comes from the Latin educere, which is to lead. And therefore you've got to do your best as a coach to lead by example. And we all get that wrong now and again. That's really important to recognize that. But coming back to if you've got a strong sense of self and those emotions are getting high, first of all, if you can manage your own emotions, you've got a better chance of managing your players emotions. We're recording this the day after Arsenal have just had a fabulous second leg performance against Real Madrid. If I can use examples for those guys who, you know, more often than not looked at the professional game and I know we're talking about grassroots here, but in Ancelotti and Arteta, you couldn't have two further polar opposite personalities on the sideline of the pitch. Ancelotti, very calm, very measured. You can clearly see how much ownership he gives to his players. Arteta, like a jack in the box, isn't he? Never stops. Yeah. Constantly, constantly shouting instructions. Now I'm not here to actually make judgment on which one is right or wrong, but if you sat both of them in this room and said, does that align to your sense of self? They both say, absolutely. Yeah. I'll test them. I absolutely put so much work into my job that I want to make sure it works. Ancelotti, a few years extra experience, will say, yeah, that's my sense of self. It's all down to the players. So I think the more you can have that clarity around your sense of self, your purpose, Why are you doing what you're doing? And I know, hey, listen, this is a complicated question because in there, one of the reasons why coaches at grassroots level are doing what they're doing is because their child is out there. Now that adds another dimension of complexity when you've got the emotions of watching what your child, your little boy or your little girl, your teenage son, your teenage daughter is going through. So it's a whole myriad of complexity. And that's why it's really important to know why you're doing what you're doing.

[Louise]

Do you think that's the key question to ask yourself? Then why am I doing what I'm doing? Or are there other questions you can ask yourself to kind of get to that?

[Vinny]

I'd start with that one. Yeah. Do you have a clear purpose? And we're talking about here, the grassroots coaching context. I think if, if there's going to be that really powerful sense of self, it's also your purpose in life. Now I'm very fortunate again privileged to do the job that I do and my sense of self on the sideline you know this I won't go into detail but it links very much to my surname yeah And that's something that I've formulated over many, many years. So if I need to check myself, I just need to very, very quickly think, OK, am I aligning here? And then that's my own way of managing situations where I think, OK, I need to just maybe stop giving too much information, et cetera, et cetera. But I think that key question is a good starting point.

[Louise]

How would you say coaches should ensure that players experience both enjoyment and development?

[Vinny]

That whole piece around the young players understanding a little bit how learning works. So the enjoyment for all children is, let's be real, the game is about scoring goals and stopping goals. So if we talk about within practice sessions, yeah, have your sessions got a strong element of scoring goals and stopping goals. So when I opened up today and gave the concept of that good practice design, good session design. So if the youngsters within a practice session have got an opportunity to score into a goal, that's really important. There should be opposition within there. Now that might not be that, let's say you've got 14 players in your squad, that you're just going straight into a 7v7 game. There might be an element of overloads, underloads, whereby one team's got more numbers and other teams got less. Orientation is a really important piece. So we know that whatever the format of the game of football is, it's played on a rectangular pitch. And therefore, when you design your practice sessions so that the children get a real sense of if they're learning stuff as much as possible have it on a rectangular pitch. Now I caveat that by saying it depends also what your main focus for that session or series of sessions is but let's just go really simple if it's on a rectangular pitch with an element of scoring a goal at one end and stopping a goal at the other end. And again, that doesn't need to be a physical goal that is the same size as what they'd have in a match day. It might be that you're playing with two-coned goals at either end, what we call a four goal game. It might be that you've got a zone at one end of the pitch, again, which I'll reference later on. But as long as they've got that opportunity to orientate themselves on the pitch to say, OK, which goal am I attacking or which end am I attacking? How many goals am I attacking? And what about out of possession? Yeah. Where's the goal or the goals or the zone that I'm defending, that's a really important piece. Giving the youngsters an opportunity to work that out in practice sessions really does benefit, and listen I've seen it over 10 years, really does benefit how they understand the game both individually and then in their small units and then also as a team. So I think that that enjoyment comes from in summary the chance to score and stop goals and it links to what I said earlier around that good session design.

[Jamie]

If we had to pin you to three top tips, What would be the most important three top tips that you would give to a coach for creating a thriving learning environment?

[Vinny]

First of all, I'll go back to coaching with kindness. That whole idea of can we try and catch our players in rather than catch them out? And embedded within that, my third top tip is actually around the number three. That when you're observing your practice session going on, when you're observing a game, coach with kindness rather than coach with criticism. Now, criticism is quite a strong word. Let me explain what I mean by that. If you see one of your players do something that you perceive to be a mistake, then once is an incident, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. If you see a pattern of what you perceive to be mistakes, that's the time to start coaching. And what that'll do, you'll spend more time as a coach observing and seeing what's going on as opposed to stopping the session, whether it be a power practice, whether it be a game, constantly when there's a mistake. Because that latter scenario, What will that do to young players? First of all, it'll create an environment where they're fearful of making mistakes, because in effect they're being called out when a mistake is happening. So that whole idea of your observation skills, once an incident, twice a coincidence, three times a pattern, if you can think around that concept, that will help you, first of all, to praise the good stuff that you've seen going on, and then to obviously be less insistent on stopping the session. And linked to that last one is, and if you are intervening, think about how you can do that on an individual player basis and make that clear to the players as well that they understand that now and again it might be a case of Jamie come across here quick chat yeah and then you can talk through as an individual and then your session your game your practice is carrying on.

[Louise]

Yeah it really just puts into perspective how to not keep calling someone out if you break it into three times.

[Jamie]

Yeah, exactly. And it's something that sticks in your head as well. It's easy for coaches just to think, you know what, you know, sometimes it might be hard, like in terms of stopping yourself from jumping in and going, oh, you might need some help. But actually, when you have that and just think, let's just watch, let's just observe. Don't want to impact their enjoyment or development, but me just staying back, that will support with that sort of thing. So I think it's really important takeaway that I really like that.

[Louise]

I think as well, it potentially gives you a little bit more time to watch what is happening and potentially understand why it's happening. Maybe. I don't know. It gives you a

[Vinny]

chance. Two really great points that both of you make. That's why we love these chats, don't we? But it gives you a chance as a coach to, when we're talking about the individual needs of our players, yeah, I say if you're constantly jumping on again, I'm using my words deliberately, what you perceive to be a mistake, then you're not really given an opportunity for things to flow. And we're cutting down, I remember my top tip earlier around trying to ensure that you have high levels of activity time, high ball rolling time. If you're constantly stopping the session because you want to correct a mistake, that's got all sorts of implications from your own self-care as well, being kind to yourself as a coach in terms of, you're right Jamie, I've got the word coach on me back, those parents over there need to see that I'm coaching, yeah, and of course what do people perceive coaching to be whereby the coaches in amongst it loud, actually being the dominant voice. And there's a time and a place where the coach clearly needs to be. I said earlier, the sage center stage, but there's a lot of time where the coach needs to be one more time. The guide on the side, observing, seeing stuff, maybe just doing little one-to-one interventions.

[Louise]

You're full of these.

[Jamie]

I know, it's brilliant. Every episode.

[Vinny]

I love it.

[Jamie]

This is why we keep getting you on Vinny, it's brilliant.

[Louise]

One of the key things that you mentioned is really getting to understand your players. Do you have any advice to help coaches discover and understand the individual needs and wants of their players?

[Vinny]

Yeah, I've referenced the surveys earlier, so I'm not going to go down that line again, but I referenced them earlier to find out what my current squad of under 16s want to do next season and beyond. Just to reference back to that, my more frequent use of the surveys has been a series of questions to find out what are they enjoying so far in practice sessions? What are they enjoying in match days? The big question to ask if you're doing it in a survey, because you won't get any answers by the way if you do this verbally in person, is what is it you don't like about what I do as a coach? Wow, yeah, what a big question that is and I'll tell you what, I've had some really strong answers from some of my players, some of my youngsters and answers where I've gone, okay, that's interesting. And of course you need to have the other ones, well what you really like that I'm doing as a coach, yeah, but to be vulnerable as a coach and be prepared to ask that question. Let's go away from the survey because I know there'll be people listening to this going, oh surveys to children and all the you know the piece around sending it to parents and I'm never going to get anything back. Well try it but try this one then in person yeah so Louise you're one of my young players yeah in person yeah just as people arrive into a practice session or a match day. Hi, Louise, how you doing? The usual stuff, yeah. Being really friendly, showing that you genuinely care. What can I help you with today? What can I help you with today? As opposed to, right, Louise, what I want you to do today is this, this, this, this, and this. Yeah. By the time you got to the fourth, this, Louise has switched off. Yeah. How can I help you today? Yeah. And it can, I give a real example? I've had one of my young players quite recently talk to me about having a preference to start as a game changer rather than to start the game. Yeah. So I use the term game changer rather than subs because I want them all to feel valued because they genuinely are. And there'll be a time within the game where it's their time to go on and they will because they're replacing another boy who they're not identical to. So they're going to change the game in one way or another. They're going to bring their superpowers to the dance floor, if you like, the pitch. Yeah. Every child has got some sort of superpower. Every player's got some sort of superpower. So ask that question. Yeah. And that was the answer that I got. I actually am quite enjoying coming on and changing the game. Okay. Let's do that then. Yeah. Yeah. An interesting thing to kind of somewhat,

[Louise]

I think changing that terminology is probably you then see the value in what someone does instead of it just being a substitute or whatever kind of, and the fact that they've asked for that to be the position that they start in.

[Vinny]

Yeah, absolutely. And again, connecting the dots as we always try to do, going back to that whole autonomy piece, yeah. Hearing from them. Yeah. If I can give you another example of a question that I've used quite a lot is when you're maybe trying to get a youngster to think about an element of their individual play, their tactical play, whatever it might be. Yeah. Asking them, particularly at those younger years, who's your favourite player? Who do you love watching? Yeah. And it might be, I've been working with a youngster just recently who loves Marcus Rashford. Yeah. And my next question is, tell me what you like about Marcus Rashford. And then we delved into, do you think you can do that? Do you think you can try those really penetrating forward runs? Yeah, yeah. I'm good at that. Why? Good. Well, I'm quick. Good lad. Okay. So just think about timing those runs so you don't run offside, for example. But finding out again from them, who's their favourite player? And straight away, you're taking them into their world or we're going into their world and finding out what in their brain do they understand. Yeah, obviously you're stumped a little bit if they say I haven't got a favourite player. More often than not the youngsters are there because they love their footy and they will have a favourite player. So that's another useful one I think.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Just wanted to build on the back of that question by asking this, which is, do you have any advice to support coaches with then recognising difference and managing individual difference within a group?

[Vinny]

Yeah. It goes back to again, the importance of taking time as a coach, which again is a bit of self-care that I'm going to spend time observing what's going on. We know you want to get in there and do some coaching. It's being aware of the step principle, which is so important and it's front and center in all of our coach education programs. And the step principle in simple terms, yeah, space, task, equipment, people or players. The words are so simple, but the skill of how do you implement that? So when you see one of your players who, and I talked earlier about high support, high challenge, It might be that you've got a player who is one of your most confident, strongest players, they need an element of challenge and therefore it might be, let's go with the players piece, when you're doing a couple of small-sided games and practice session, rather than playing a, Let's say you've got 16 of training, I'll just go with numerical example. 16, you think, right, we're going to have two games of four v four. Actually this game over here, where the stronger player in, they're going to play five v three. Yeah. And that stronger player or stronger players are in the group of three. And you explain to them, the reason you're having this challenge is, yeah, you play higher up the pitch and often you'll be up against more defenders than attackers. So see how you get on for the next five, six, seven minutes, not see how you get on for the next 45 minutes. Yeah. So that element of how do you bring the step principle, which by words is really simple, but the skill of being a good coach and a good teacher is how do you bring it to life relevant to the individual players in front of you.

[Louise]

How can coaches tell if they've succeeded in creating and maintaining this kind of environment, would you say?

[Vinny]

I'm going to go really simple. Do your children, do your teenagers, do your adults keep coming back? Yeah. Do they keep coming back for your practice sessions during the week? Are they punctual? Are they there on time, ready to go? And obviously eager and keen to get out there and run around and experience, you know, what you're about to provide for them, which is a an opportunity first and foremost to be active, to be healthy by playing the game that we all love. And, you know, on a match day, have you got your consistent numbers in your squad? That to me is a real litmus test over time if you are actually creating a positive environment that they just love coming back to.

[Louise]

And do you think there's ways you could tell if we're trying to implement learning and things, is there things that you could recognise there and you can tell if you're doing it well?

[Vinny]

Doing your best to individualise that. So a little thing that I'd like to share with everybody is this idea of whatever you've got as a focus for the session, try and present it in a way whereby the young players, the children can see it. So the use of a whiteboard for example. I mean, I tried using the whiteboards. We had a cold snap of weather in the last few weeks and for my practice session I was about to use the whiteboard and the temperature dropped to about two degrees. Of course the pen didn't work on the whiteboard did it? Now I know that with all my years of experience I did have a piece of flip chart in my hold all yeah and it'd also been pre-prepared in terms of thinking okay if I can't use the whiteboard tonight, the flip chart is there. But being able to present stuff that the youngsters can see and maybe when they're having a drinks break, go and reference. And one little thing that I do with that, so let's say, I'll give a real example again. My boys have really, under 16s, been so invested in winning games. So here we go, no matter what I've said about the performance is the most important thing and the development, yeah, they were vying to win the league this season. So they wanted to win games. And I framed the concept, I might have shared this with you before, the concept of WIN, but I took it a stage further because they are older boys, yeah, or bright boys, to WINNERS. And WINNERS was an acronym, but I'll just share with you the first three. W, work harder. Work harder than what? And that was a question to them. They come up with work harder than the opposition, work harder than my direct opponent with that intensity. So you might say they're very similar things. They are for a reason. So it's consolidating, Okay, the intensity of what? The intensity of my running, the intensity, if you like, in terms of my closing downs as a defender, all sorts of things that you can link to that word. And then the end, never give up. Because we'd had a couple of situations whereby that's very much in the psychological corner, resilience, et cetera, where we'd had situations where we'd lost a goal or two. And it's a case of, okay, can we turn this around and we prove that we could. So I'll just press pause there for the purpose of our limited time today. So how does that manifest itself? Well, they are simply words. So within my practice sessions, boys, winners is over on the boards. As you go over for a break, yeah, we'd move from the arrival activity into our first game. Yeah, as you pop over, grab a pen, put your initials next to one of those letters. Put your initials next to one of those letters, your choice. So there's the ownership. And when you're playing your first game, I'm going to come over and see what you've picked. And then my coaching tonight is I'm going to have a one-to-one with you about the one that you've picked. And my question is going to be really simple. How? How are you going to do that? Yeah. So if you've actually picked intensity, give me a couple of examples of where you're going to bring more intensity to your game. And there's the learning. Yeah. Now that takes time, but if you can picture that in your mind's eye, that's a very different style of coaching, isn't it? To the coach being centre stage. Yeah. And butterflying around. Yeah. Now and again, I'm saying, Oli, just come over. Yeah. Love what you put over there. You talked about never giving up. Yeah, tell me a situation where you might normally give up. And off they go. Yeah, don't keep them off the pitch. They know they're not gonna be off the pitch for any more than 30 seconds. Here's the clever thing. Yeah. I've just taken Oli. Yeah. I've got a few, well, two Olivers now. We used to have three, four in fact. I've just taken Oli off the pitch. Whilst Oli is off the pitch, his team that was playing in a game of 4v4, they're now playing in a game of 4v3. You've cleverly created an overload and an under load. So his team now, three players, they've got to work harder with the ball and they've got to work more intelligently without the ball. And if you can try and achieve that with, let's say that night, I had 16 boys. That is a good effort as a coach to get around 16 boys individually, find out what they've written on there. But as with everything, yeah, I'm going to hit you now with the five Ps. You've heard it before. Proper preparation promotes positive performance. If as a coach you want to perform, you've got to do some preparation beforehand. Now I'm not going to talk about creating a session plan that you never veer from. That's not what we're talking about at all. I'm talking about preparation rather than a session plan. Yeah. What is your preparation for that session? My one was to have the flip chart with the winner's concept on the board, knowing that if I had that on a whiteboard, they wouldn't be able to write on the whiteboard. And therefore my preparation was null and void. So think about your preparation and it doesn't have to take a load of time either.

[Jamie]

With everything we've talked about today, thinking of someone who's either joining a new team or just got into coaching themselves, do you have any words of encouragement for them and maybe some support say like for instance where should they start and also I say encouragement to say that this will take time it's not something that's just gonna happen after one session and you're gonna get that thriving learning environment 100% right to begin with.

[Vinny]

I'm going to reiterate things that I've already said, and hopefully anyone still listening as they've already said that earlier. Well, that's the whole thing about learning again. So first of all, think about your purpose. Why are you doing what you're doing? Hopefully there's something in there that links to you enjoying what you're doing. Yeah. And whether we want to use the word fun, having fun, enjoyment for me, slightly different meanings. Yeah. But try and sustain an element of enjoyment. If you're enjoying what you do and there's a great chance that your six year old, 16 year old, 26 year old are enjoying it as well. I've talked about coaching with kindness. Yeah. Be kind to yourself. Don't be too critical and too harsh on yourself because we will all get things wrong. Yeah. But also it's so crucial to recognize when you get things right. So be kind to yourself because ultimately we are all out there within grassroots footy. We are all volunteers. We're doing this out of the love of the game to give something back to the community. And there's also likely to be that element. We're doing it because our child is in there. Yeah. There's another podcast in there in terms of the parent coach, because there's so much to unravel there. Be kind to yourself. Yeah. And then finally, in terms of those two things, when you are being kind to yourself, when you're coaching with kindness, when you've got an element of enjoyment, be brave enough to try things out. So whether you've seen something, you're gonna hear a session from me in a minute, you might say, I'm gonna try that. Yeah, you might see something on our England football learning website or on our community page. You might Google something the night before or an hour before, try something out. When you try things out remember if you come away thinking that was a fail then that was simply a first attempt in learning. And if you try it again and you think it failed again well that's a further attempt in learning. We are always learning. We are always learning. I've already said I've been teaching and coaching for 35 years. I'm off of making mistakes. Yeah. The untrained eye, the parents on the sideline, even the boys now and again, won't realise that I've made a mistake. I've also got a relationship with my boys where they say, Vim, when we just swap teams over there, our numbers aren't right. Thank you boys, well done. Yeah, just spotting you were still awake. Yeah. And so there's that element of also being prepared to run. No, I haven't. I just say, yeah, thank you. Go on, sort her out and they'll sort her out. So recognising that we will all make little mistakes whether it be just the whole practice session game design doesn't work or there might just be something little within your session. So take that word fail and try and frame it with a positive mindset that it's either a first attempt or a further attempt in learning.

[Louise]

I absolutely love that. I'm going to take that with me wherever I go.

[Vinny]

It's true for life as well isn't it?

[Jamie]

It is, it absolutely is.

[Louise]

And just off the back of that as well, is there anything, like a little challenge that you could set our listeners to kind of something to have a go at where they could potentially try and develop some of their learning environment.

[Vinny]

In match days can you give complete ownership to your squad to lead the pre-match team talk and even more powerfully to lead the halftime team talk. Okay. It's something I've played round with more so this year. I've done it plenty of times before, but this year in terms of the age of the boys under 16s and their tactical awareness and recognising that they understand the game. Yeah, bless them. Some of them have had 10 years of me. So if I'm even half decent to coaching, they know stuff and they listen. I've talked about their journey up various leagues and whatever but it's not just about that about their whole development as I say now you know becoming young men and the thing I've done very very recently this season is actually said right boys if you are our defensive unit so goalkeeper and whatever we typically play at the back, yeah, and sometimes play 3, 4, get together over here. If you're typically midfield, come over here, whatever that looks like number-wise, and if you're typically higher up the pitch, whether wingers, centre-forwards, number 10s, number 9s, whatever, come over here in their units, right? Have a little chat, all I want from you, yeah, in your own time, 30 seconds, one thing, one thing you want to focus on and do really well today. So you've got your defensive units over there talking about something very, very different, perhaps to your attacking unit, to your midfield unit. Yeah. Myself and my two other coaches, yeah, I'm fortunate to have three if everyone's there. Yeah. Just go and have a little listen there. You go there and I'll go here. And so you've got three coaches listening, yeah, not intervening, listening, and then sharing that back in very, very quickly or not. But the powerful thing is then when the defensive units say, we're really going to concentrate on pressing high whenever we can. That impacts on the midfield units, impacts on the front guys. It might be the lads in midfield, we're really gonna try and play using the concept of three. Can we play with three touches, three seconds, make a decision for sure within three seconds? That will impact on the front lads. Because now, if our midfield players are saying, do you know what, I'm gonna try and play inside three touches Sometimes it might be one touch to touch then as a striker I best be ready because they're not going to be hogging the ball today or then they're going to try not to so that would Be my top challenge just try it see how it works And what it does avoid is you as the coach, again, being the sage on the stage, centre stage a half time or before the game, talking for three minutes. Yeah. If you talk for 30 seconds, they've switched off. Yeah. So actually let them do the talking because remember it's their game.

[Louise]

Love it.

[Jamie]

Well we are coming up to the end of the show now Vinny but that does mean it is time for our Swift Session feature.

[Louise]

Yeah so this is where you get a chance to tell us about your session idea. I'm gonna ask you to do that in 30 seconds. You've done it before, done it really well. Are you up for the challenge this time?

[Vinny]

Defo. Here we go.

[Louise]

Once again, once the music starts, you can begin.

[Vinny]

So this session design and game design is called two ways to win. Basically, at one end of the pitch, you've got a zone running across the whole width of the pitch, at the other end you've got a goal, it might be your standard size goal, it might be two mini goals and basically the attacking team that is going from zone to goal, your job if you score is to come and collect another ball from the end zone. The team actually attacking the end zone, if you get the ball into the end zone, you very, very quickly switch the play and attack the goal.

[Louise]

Absolutely perfect, Carmen. I was like, ooh, there's more to come.

[Vinny]

Got it in.

[Jamie]

Got it in there, absolutely.

[Louise]

Is there anything else you wanted to add to it now that the time has finished? Any other context or anything?

[Vinny]

Yeah, if anyone's listening to that thing, hang on a minute, how did that go? Listen to it again and then of course reach out to any of us on the football community if you wanted a bit more clarity around maybe a picture but the game is one that you'll see frequently on England Football Learning whereby I say you've got a zone at one end, goals at the other or a goal at the other end but it's a great game because it's got scoring goals, stopping goals, it's got in possession, out of possession, it's got transition, so it's all in there.

[Louise]

Everything. Lovely.

[Jamie]

Love it. Well, that is time for today, Vinny. Thank you very much for joining us and giving your top tips and yeah, we took a lot away from that. So thank you very much for your time hopefully you've enjoyed being on again really

[Vinny]

yeah it's always fabulous joining the both of you here at St. George's Park and look forward to the next one

[Jamie]

absolutely we'll have you on again Vinnie we love having you on we really do right well that is all we do have time for today but don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football Community and this is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.

[Louise]

Yes, we’d love to help you with your coaching questions, so please do check it out!

As we mentioned at the top of the show, this is the last episode of the season – but don’t worry, we'll be back really soon – so if you haven’t already, hit subscribe to make sure you don’t miss an episode.

From us all at England Football Learning, thanks for listening!