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[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. As always, we're Jamie and Louise, and today we're joined by Paul Holder, who's returning to Coachcast to talk about session management and keeping players engaged when training in the winter. Well, hi, Paul, welcome back to the show. How are you?
[Paul]
All right, thank you.
[Louise]
Well, thank you for joining us, and for anybody that hasn't tuned into an episode that you've been on before, can you give our listeners a reminder of what it is that you do for The FA?
[Paul]
Yeah, I work in the professional game arm of The FA and I go into certain clubs. Some are in the Premier League and some are not. Some are in League 2, and that's where the variation is nice. And I help the coaches, help the players, and aside from that, I do some stuff on player development and current trends in the game, things that keep me interested and then I can pass that back to coaches, so I keep myself busy, really.
[Louise]
Yeah, brilliant.
[Paul]
And I do have a link with grassroots, so I follow grassroots really carefully.
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
I watch it as often as I can.
[Jamie]
Well, speaking of helping coaches, just before we dive into the main part of the show, as this is a coaching podcast, and as you know because you've been on before, we like to give coaches some great advice early on in the episode.
[Louise]
Yep, so we're going to give you 30 seconds and we're going to ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can in those 30 seconds.
[Paul]
Big tips for me would be, just respond to what the players are doing, don't be wedded to an outcome, and if you've got a plan, be prepared to change that plan and smile. And if someone turns up late, welcome them and make things easy, make it as much related to football as you can. So, get them playing, get them playing the game, get them scoring goals and saving goals as quickly as you can.
[Jamie]
You absolutely smashed it. I like that, I like those top tips, you smashed that. Well, Paul, you were last on with us, I think, about over a year ago. You were talking about growth and maturation, then, do check that episode out if you haven't already. Now, today we are focussing on session management and player engagement.
So, to start, what's the first thing that coaches should have in their minds when it comes to running a training session in the winter?
[Paul]
Well, it's an obvious one, isn't it? Just listen to the weather forecast. You know, and I have to say that, if a coach is surprised by the weather, I know you get the odd shower here and there, if they're surprised by the weather, then maybe you need to build that into your planning.
And I know it's so obvious to say, but, no, this is going to be a rainy one or a windy one, and it sets the environment for you. So, I don't care what your plan is, it's that environment will overtake your plan every time if it's destructive. So, for example, the worst weather you can have is wind.
You can deal with rain, yeah, because you can dry off, but wind just destroys any practice. It's absolutely, you know, like, it is the worst thing, you know. So, I think you just have to be sensitive to what's coming down the tracks.
Don't be afraid to admit that, listen, we need to do something different. You can't just go with one plan in the winter. You've got to have plan B and C sometimes.
[Louise]
What would you say the biggest challenge is that coaches face when managing sessions in the winter months?
[Paul]
I think the biggest challenge is that the players go on the pitch cold and, you know, you do a warm-up and stuff like that. One is, and I heard this, I can't believe it, there was a rule about no gloves. You know, really?
Why? And actually, because, take the little ones now, they don't head the ball now, you know. You can wear hats, can't you? You can be quite liberal with what they put on, and then they'll take them off and stuff.
I don't think we can be too pedantic about what they look like when they go on the pitch. Whatever works for them, works. Now we've changed, so this may be an old thing and people have... That went out years ago, but I've seen it, I've seen it before.
Now, if you're 15, I don't care what age you are, whatever you're comfortable with and it's all right for you, then that's okay with me. If you want to wear tracksuit bottoms, that's up to you, you know? But my responsibility is to get you going, so that you take those gloves and hats off because you're warm, you're ready, you know?
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
You're so active that you just want... I'm too hot.
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
You see what I mean?
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
And this is a great topic, because where I lived in London and stuff, you are pretty much protected by that, but it does get very cold, and it can get very windy and rainy.
And the point of the matter in winter is, you have to be prepared to put your plans in the bin and your tactics board, and go with activity as soon as you get on the pitch and keep that activity going. And I have to say, you have to watch for individuals that are really struggling, some struggle. You can get little dots that are wafer-thin, where the weather hits them much harder than maybe more mature people. See what I mean?
More mature kids. So, you just have to have your eyes and ears open, but you've got to be prepared to say, this is what I think we're going to do, but put that down and we're going to do this. So, you always have this reserve.
And I've got to say, your best friend, and it's the same if you run out of ideas with coaching, is, put them in a game with scoring, and keep the score and make it competitive and manage the competition. That doesn't take much. But what that does is the kids will go on thinking they've played football rather than they learn, they don't have to learn something every week or traditionally learn something.
Do you see what I mean? That sort of stuff. So, I think you've got to be quite fluid in what you're doing.
In fairness, and I watch some grassroots training, I have seen a lot in the winter, they're very good at that. You know, the ones I see, they're very good at it. But there are some that will do passing drills in the rain.
And you go, why are you doing that? What is the point? People shivering, you know, standing in queues.
So, I think the thing is, everyone's active. So, if that means more balls in the practice, if that means no queues or as little queues as you can, so everyone has a go, keep going and get them... Say, you need a break. If they need a break and it's freezing cold, you've done all right.
If they're folding their arms and huddling together, chatting... And I know how this goes. You know, you get allocated a part of the pitch in grassroots. Sometimes, you've got big squads, you might have 16 on a third of the pitch. Get them playing, it doesn't matter. You don't have to have anyone stand on the sides, you know, and you don't have to be too pure about... The only thing, you could break that down into two games of four-v-four very quickly and keep the score, so everyone's active. Trouble is, some coaches, you know, big squads, and then they go into eight-v-eight and there's only one ball. So, that's one between 16 people.
So, there's a group of emperor penguins that are not being active, you know, like... And the goalkeepers, be very aware of what the goalkeepers are doing. And I have a policy of rotating them in and out in the winter. They're not just goalies all the time.
Come on, out you come, come and run about. I don't care how good they are on the pitch, get out and run about. And then, sometimes play with no goalkeeper, rush goalie.
See what I mean? So, I think you can do the typical PE teachers' sort of strategies, you know. And some PE teachers are, well, the ones I had weren't very good at it, but they have strategies to deal with the weather. You know what I mean?
Right, we're going to do this and you do this, so on and so forth. Don't all just go, right, we're going inside just because it's spitting. You do have to have a reserve.
And I've given an example of, there's a grassroots club I know that trains at a school and they let them use the old gym. It's got wall bars, it's a really old gym. And if the weather's really, really bad, they come in, but they only come in if it's absolutely teeming.
And you know what? Sometimes, and this particular club, without naming names, it was really good that they brought them in for 10 minutes, yeah, to run around, and then they went out again in the rain. So, they came in and out, do you see what I mean?
And that was really, I thought, you know what? That's all right, because what you're doing is recognising the environment is not helping and isn't helping. It's not there to help you. It's there to, you know, like, it disrupts you.
So, how can we override that? And I don't want to go on about it, but don't wrap the kids up in cotton wool too much. Just keep an eye on the ones that need a bit of... yeah?
And sometimes you can't do anything. Sometimes, it's just, no, we need to stop and be prepared to say, "I'll see you on Tuesday or Thursday, this isn't working", you know? Because of these reasons, not because you can't get your technical points out.
You know, you have to deal with the kids first, the players first, you know?
[Jamie]
Basically so. I'm trying to imagine a session that you're running in the winter and it's all about players quickly getting involved, whether it's arrival activities or straight into the game. So, they're running around and it's all about getting players active and warm.
[Paul]
I see kids, if you don't give them a task to do, that doesn't work. You have, you can't just say, oh, go out there and run around, because they won't. They don't know what to do.
So, you have to be quite structured in that. So, that's why it is a plan B. It's not, I've got plan A and I don't know what I'm going to do.
Oh, they can do what they like. You go, you know, let's just play. You have to have some plan and go, no, if this happens, I'm going to do this.
So, they've got some boundaries and they've got something to work towards, and then they go, oh, okay. And the key for me is, if the weather does kick up, it may not kick up all the session. So, be prepared to go back to that session and say, "Right, stop".
And I've done it and you've all done it, you know, like, right, we need to get into a game now. You know, the game, and you make it fast and furious and very competitive and all that. And you don't have set pieces and you don't have things where the ball stops, like penalties and all that.
You don't know. Keep the game going. Have loads of balls where the ball goes off, another one comes in. So, keep that activity going.
And there are strategies that you can have, you know, have balls on the side where the ball is, and have rules where you soften the rules, you know. Like, ball goes off and play on, you know, you're just off for a bit. You're off for a little bit. Do you know what I mean?
Get back on the pitch. All you've got to be in your head is, like, and on a bit of paper is, that plan is not just a free-for-all, you know, it's there for a reason. See what I mean?
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
I think it'll be all right.
[Louise]
A bit of flexibility.
[Paul]
That's the word. Flexibility. Yeah. I wish I'd used it.
Adaptability. Be adaptable, but in the simplest way, because your best friend is the game.
Always will be. It'll always get you out of trouble. It's a godsend, because if you completely are on your uppers in terms of knowing what to do next, then put them in a game.
And do you know what? If a kid really struggles and needs to go and sit in the car with mum or dad, what's up with that? They just can't cope with it.
Some just can't cope with some of the winter stuff, whatever you do, you know, it's just too much for them. So, I think you've just got to be really flexible in what you're doing. And it's an age thing.
It's to do with the kids. If the kids are little, you know, you know as well as I do that the weather impacts them far greater than if they're 15 and 16. You know, if they're 17 and 18, they can go for anything. The younger ones, you've got to be really sensitive to that.
[Jamie]
You talked about flexibility and adaptability, basically, in plans. Do you have to be flexible with communication as well when it comes to running sessions in the winter, in cold weather, whether it's raining, whether it's windy as well?
[Paul]
Yeah, look, we all want to ask kids questions and we want to be two-way communication and stuff. And sometimes, you have to be quite direct and you have to tell them what to do. And I've run sessions and I've seen coaches run sessions where you're going, "No, no, no, this is the rules. This is what you're doing. Get on with it". And your technical... if you want technical coaching, then that sometimes gives way to more physical coaching.
You got all these things working, you know, for your favour or against you. And, you know, when it comes to sometimes in the winter, the technical stuff and the tactical stuff gives way to the mental and the physical and the social. Come on, you know, get through it.
So, your lens goes towards more physical. That might mean, and I spoke to you earlier, didn't I? And I'm not suggesting you do this, but a PE teacher, and I think my PE teacher, when I was at school, in the winter, we'd play six-a-side on a full-size pitch.
Now, hang on, that's a lot of running. Or you can choose just to say, "I'm not doing it". But it was like, there's a lot of running involved in that.
And I think sometimes what we can do is, give them the spaces to run so that they can, because, I'm not being funny, but a kid will naturally run, if you see what I mean. But if you haven't got the space to do it, and you're putting them in little tight areas where it's like, you know, you have to be very careful of the spaces they operate in, so that they can, you can move into the physical and the mental side, rather than the technical, tactical, you know. It gives way to that. And then the emotional stuff, like, takes care of itself.
But we're talking about extreme scenarios. Mainly, I don't know a game that was called off in the winter down near me, you know. And people got AstroTurf pitches, so the games are likely to go on, whatever happens.
So, you do have to manage the environment, because you can't rely on the pitch to do it for you. You know, back in the day, if the weather was nonsense, the pitch would tell you, no, pitch unfit, off. But now you've got these AstroTurf pitches and all-weather pitches.
The all-weather pitches mean that you do have to learn to manage the weather. And you know something? And this drives me potty, is, on the side, you get kids taking their tops off when it's raining, and they dump it on the side. And I'm saying, what are they dumping it in?
That's going to get soaking wet and, say... It doesn't take much to put on a side, even a box where it's protected, or I'm not suggesting you, you know, it's not Glastonbury, but you can take one of these pop-up tents, you know, that you can put on the side of the pitch and just put your stuff in there. But you can think of things to do whereby, if they do need to put a top on, it's not drenched, you know what I mean? And I see it all the time.
So, the kids who are freezing, stay freezing. But I do think you need to switch your thing from technical, tactical, towards more physical and psych stuff. Generate, you know, "Come on, you'll be all right, come on, keep going", you know.
And I think that's a really important shift, that's where plan B might be, is, yeah, you want to do this today because you're playing, I don't know, you're playing a team on Saturday and you want to win, or you want to do this to help the kids, and so... You just can't do it. So, let's turn that into a physical session, and my eyes are on that, who's not doing the physical, or who is, and okay, you need to move here, or, "Oh, we got too many on the pitch", or, let's change the practice altogether and just turn it into a game, or... You see what I mean?
[Louise]
What type of communication would it be? Would it be, like, short, sharp?
[Paul]
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
[Louise]
Instructions, I guess, or would it be explanations, or...
[Paul]
When you think about the community, you really, if you go into the physical and psych stuff, if it's really struggling with the weather, and that's not often, is, I see coaches relentlessly going through their plans. And their communication is, "No, I'm going to tell you this, whatever happens". And actually, sometimes, you just need to, the communication has got to be, sometimes nothing. What you're doing is focussing so much on the organisation, changing the rules in the game, making it, you know, competitive, you haven't got time to talk to them.
You know what I mean? And sometimes that works, but it has to be short and sharp, which is obvious, isn't it? You know, like, and, you know, sometimes when the kids are struggling with the weather, as I say, it's not that often, a kid doesn't want to get into a group huddle and ask questions about, right, let's review what went on.
I think you've just got to be... as if you're there yourself, what would it be like? You've got to tap into what it was like, because I know, because I remember being freezing cold on the pitch. Yeah, absolutely toes frozen, and no one doing anything, you know, like... And that's fine, but I'm sure there's an alternative.
[Louise]
What signs should coaches look out for to judge if players are starting to become disinterested during a session? Whether it's because they're cold, or they're just not feeling it?
[Paul]
They're probably the same ones that are disinterested most of the time, yeah. But if the winter comes, and remember this, the winter's dark, and it's not natural light, and there's some people affected. And I'm not looking too deeply at it, but some people are affected by the dark, in terms of, it's like, it's dark at four o'clock, and there is a seasonal thing that, not only is the weather bad, but it's dark as well. And the flood lights don't help, so people with, maybe you wear glasses, can be affected by the, not only is it raining and thing, but it's also dark, because the lights will not compensate that much, do you know what I mean? The body language is clear, you'll see them clear as day, like, the ones that don't want to join in, and then you're gonna have to do something about that. You can't just let them. But then sometimes, the ones who are not very good at football, yeah, don't know what to do when it's cold, or don't know how to, because they've never done... You know, they just, you know, the better ones have the ball, and take care, so that's when you probably need to split them off into small groups, have little freer side tournaments. Tournaments always work, you know. Break them down into tournaments, and... You know, you get sometimes, you might be playing, doing a practice like that, and you think, do you know what? Like, there's too many cues, or there's not enough balls, or you get, you know, you can see it, clear as day, and that's when you have to be prepared to chop it there, and say, "Right, three-a-side tournament, we're going straight into it now, give me two minutes, reset stuff". Always think that your stage management of a practice allows you to go into something that you didn't plan very quickly, I don't know if that makes any sense to you. So, I plan, if it's in the winter, and I've done this with grassroots, I've done it with academy kids, always plan so that, if I need to go into a tournament, I can do it straight away. You see what I mean?
[Louise]
How would you do that?
[Paul]
Well, if you're going that way on a pitch, for example, yes, up and down, and you're playing a practice that goes up and down, you stick four goals or something, or cones, you just lay them as, and you know they're there, do you see what I mean? So, you divide the pitch into two, and you go across it, does that make sense? Or the playing area, you go across it, or you put cones down where you can... They don't affect the kids, they don't have to know what they're for, but you lay a ghost pitch... Oh, that's a good term, I quite like that. A ghost pitch down, or two pitches down, that you've got in reserve, that may not be in your plans, but you've got them there if you need them, see what I mean?
That's what I say about plan B. You not only have a plan on the paper, but you've actually got it on the pitch. Does that make sense?
[Jamie]
Yeah, yeah.
[Paul]
Makes a difference, because it gives you confidence to say, "You could do it, you could do that anytime, you don't have to do it in the winter". But you can go, "Do you know what? Let's get into a tournament". Right, you four, you four, you four, you four, right. There's the goals already set up, you're not saying, "Oh, go over there and wait for me to set them up", they're already there. You don't have to have goals, you can have cones, you can, see what I mean?
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
Stage management.
[Louise]
I like that.
[Jamie]
Yeah, absolutely, we take that away, stage management, absolutely. So, you've kind of given a little bit of an idea of to try and help players who are maybe starting to be a little bit disinterested. What else can you maybe tend to do with players to keep them engaged, but also on task and competitive at the same time?
[Paul]
I have a problem with the on-task bit, because we give kids tasks, and sometimes they don't need a task, they just need to play and join in, and be part of... And that's where I think coaching would be part of a competitive activity. And people say, "Oh, no, no, we put too much emphasis on competition". And I think, I'm not one of them, by the way, I think it's management of that competition.
I think coaches have a real obligation to manage a competition between two groups of players. And if someone has got a hope of winning that competition, they'll be engaged. Does that make sense?
If they're getting overrun, they give up pretty quickly.
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
That's pretty evident in winter times, you know, like, stuff like that. So, you've got to be pretty willing to go, "Right, you, I'm transferring you to that team". You know, "All right, you need to go here", or, "You need to have five, and you need to have four".
And you can manage the number. We're pretty occupied with symmetry in this country, you know, everything's got to be even. You know, like, "You four up there, and you four down there". And if you've got nine players, we go, you know, like, "Oh, we'll have a neutral player". You go, "Oh, what's that?"
Why do you have to have a neutral? You go five, and you go four. And I have to say, if you want to really up the ante, and it's winter time, and you want a bit more physical activity, and you've got nine players, then play six against three, and the three need to run around, and then change that three.
Do you know what I mean? All right, the six are probably running a bit less, but when you're in the three, in the zone with three and a goalkeeper, I've seen it. They run, you know, and they love it, you know. But they don't want to do it forever, and then you change something, see what I mean?
So, you can really manage the competition and manage the scoring. So, you keep the score, keep it competitive as often as you can, as long as you can, and concede that sometimes you rent a pitch for an hour, you know, and you might say, "Do you know what? They've been so active after 45 minutes, they're done". You have to be aware of that, the fact that, if you physically load them, because that's where your emphasis is, because you want to keep them warm, you want to keep them going, there's a ceiling on that, you know. And it's not enough to say, okay, we'll keep putting breaks in, because you don't really want a break.
You want to keep them going, and put it into one block. Does that make sense?
[Jamie]
Yeah.
[Paul]
So, sometimes, your practice is, you divide it into parts. Right, we're going to do this, and then we're going to do this, and then you go, well, actually, we're just going to do this for 45 minutes, rather than splitting it off. You know what I mean?
[Jamie]
Sticking on that sort of, like, the engagement side of things, just trying to think, like, not only is it winter, but when this goes out, there's probably around about a third of the season left. So, what advice could you give to coaches to maybe shake the training sessions up a little bit to provide something a bit different to keep players interested?
[Paul]
Yeah, as you go through the season, you get this sort of groundhog-day effect, don't you, where you're doing the same thing over and over again, and the leagues start to wind down, you know, like... And you're thinking, the kids go, you know, like... But I have to say, that's the coach's view, winding down, the kids don't. I've not seen kids change, unless they're in academies where they're like, they know the seasonal stuff, and they've got career... You know, like, set, pre-established routines.
When I watch grassroots kids, they play all year round, they'll just keep going. It's the coach that changes. I think, oh, it's the end of the season, it's like, they're talking about their holidays or whatever they're doing, you know what I mean?
I think it's them that get ground down, I don't think it's the kids. And sometimes we think, oh, we have to put extra things in. No, you have to put an extra thing in yourself, you have to, you know what I mean?
You have to give yourself a jolt, because it's you, it's not them. And I'm not saying that in every case, but I don't know a kid, and I see them in the park on their own, kicking balls about. They'll do it 24/7 if they like football. They don't like it, they wouldn't be there, would they? The ones who love the game. And here's something, get them to love the game, and that wouldn't even be a consideration.
You don't love the game if you're excluded. You don't love the game if you keep giving, if you're given things you can't do, and you don't love the game if you keep losing or, no, I'm not saying about winning games all the time, but if you keep sort of being on the end of, you've got to have some success, you can't fail all the time. And if you're freezing cold, right, all these things will, in the winter, all these things will contribute. And I think, and I see it all the time, as I said, kids will, they're like, they've got endless batteries.
The coach needs to look at themselves, what they're doing, before they sort of think that the kids need a boost. Do you know what I mean?
[Louise]
Is there anything you'd suggest that coaches could do to kind of boost themselves a little bit?
[Paul]
I think they need to trust the kids that, do you know what, if you put them in a game, they'll treat that game exactly the same as they would do if, say, it's February or March or whatever it is, and they've played loads of games, they'll still treat it the same. Because what kids are really good at is, every game is a chance for them to imagine what's going on. They will imagine things in the game, and if they saw something on Saturday in the Premier League or anything, they'll try and replicate it on, do you know what I mean?
Not all of them, but they'll, if the Lionesses have success, you know, it doesn't matter whether male or female, they'll go, "Oh, I'm going to have a go at this", or, "I'm going to try this". They'll try things out all the time, based on what's gone on in the week and what's going on. So, they're always there in the game, and I think we have to recognise that, and I think coaches can... They don't have to put, they have to recognise that, and there is a ceiling though on technical knowledge that you can go, because if you're doing, you know, kids will want to, funnily enough, as the season wears on, they want to play more and more and more.
So, you know, I think coaches could recognise the fact that they can do less technical stuff as the season wears on, and more physical stuff, and keep them motivated in that way. Just tap into the fact that, if you weren't there, they would play, and they would keep going until it's dark, or when someone comes and collects them, and you can tap into that. And I've got a saying which, I say, you tap into the natural.
What is it natural for them to do? Like, say, if you took teenage boys, it's natural for them to go head-to-head, and it's natural for kids to stop in a practice and start again. And they do, they'll join in that practice whenever they want. Well, I don't mean literally go and sit down and come back, well some do.
I think, in terms of saying, the coach has to have a look at themselves. Is it you that you're worried about them? So, don't worry about them, just keep them... well, you worry about them on one level, but you keep them active, and you keep the game in contact with the game, and they'll play 24/7, 365 days a year, boys or girls.
There's a girl who's my neighbour, she's out, outside her front door, and she's in a Manchester United kit, outside her garden, kicking a ball about 24/7. It's raining, and she's out there kicking a ball about. And I looked at her and went, "You love it, don't you? You love the game". Do you see what I mean? So, there's no coach, and she's doing that, and I think she's in a team now, and she's just there all the time with it.
And then, when the Lionesses were playing, when the game was finished, she's outside afterwards, pretending to be this. So, that's one. There must be thousands of kids that are doing that all the time. I'm not saying they all do it to that level, or to that obsession.
Is it an obsession? I don't know what it is, but it's like, that's what they do, if they love the game. The coach's responsibility is to keep them in love with the game for as long as possible.
[Jamie]
It is a really good point, and I say, it's, you've got to, as a coach, help them fall in love with the game at a younger age, in particular, but then help them stay in love with the game and, I say, keeping them active, having that right environment is just so important.
[Louise]
What role would you say that variety has in keeping sessions engaging? Do you think there needs to be a lot of variety there?
[Paul]
I think there needs to be... The trouble with variety is that you think too much hard about, I need to change this... The biggest thing you can change is, if you're in practices, is the competition element. So, that is a really strong thing, is, look at... So, for example, if you're doing a practice and it's easy on the defenders, then change the defenders. Think of the challenge point, a challenge, and think if you were in that. Because, if you've got a challenge and make it a physical challenge as well, then you'll forget about everything.
You will just join in, without a doubt. It's when it becomes either overchallenging, I can't do it, or underchallenging, I've done this 150 times, it's dull as dishwater. People say, "Oh, I'm not there to entertain you", and you say, "Actually, you are".
They'll entertain you, if you give them an opportunity to showcase what they can do. Another thing, I think that's the same in academies, is a little bit more about the science, and there's a bit more stresses about positions, and stuff like that. But, essentially, you should be able to, kids should be able to get on the pitch and express themselves in the way that they can, because they might not, you know, there's physical differences all over the place. So, just do what you can, you know, and be inclusive, I think.
The variety thing, as I said, like, you've got to be careful about, have a variety of challenges, rather than a variety of practices. You can have the same practice, and we've all done it, you have the same practice that goes on quite a long time, but you change the challenge, and to all the intents and purposes, it's a different practice altogether. And then, you change the dynamics, change the numbers. There's three things that you can look at, in looking at variety, space, time, and numbers.
You can change the space, right? You can either make it smaller or bigger, that's really easy to do, or swivel it, so you either go up the pitch, or across it. Time, which means you can put a time limit on things. So, right, we're going to play for two blocks of six minutes, or six blocks of two minutes, something, you know, really punchy, you've got to win every block. So, you put a time limit on it. And numbers. What are you going to do with the numbers? Are you going to be even, or are you going to outnumber?
Are you going to heavily outnumber? Yeah? And then watch. So, I'll give you an example of a challenge, like, you could play passers-v-dribblers. Dribblers love dribbling against people, yeah? So, you could play six-v-four, right, in a game, and put all the dribblers on the floor, because they will try and get through you. Play a game, the six will pass it to each other, because they like passing, or they're good at it, but the dribblers need to be outnumbered, you see what I mean? So, you can play that, and you can play attack-v-defence, you can play... You know what I mean? You just keep with the older ones, you could keep putting... You probably wouldn't do that with the younger ones, because you don't know who's the attacker and who's the defender. And then you could have things like, if one player scores, it counts double. Not one player, but a particular player scores, it counts double, and they all work to try and get that player to score. You can mess about with scores. And I think, if coaches are better at that, managing the challenge, managing the scoring, managing the competition in a practice, rather than managing the practice, see what I mean?
And the variety thing, it's sometimes driving mad. You keep, I have a thing about, keep the middle clean of cones and everything, and bring out rules and regulations, or rules, and have a few lines here and there, yes. And have fun things like penalties. And here's something interesting you could do. And I've worked at a club now, and it's changed everything. What we do is, we play with small goals, and have small penalty areas, right? ANd I'm saying, all you're doing is putting the penalty area down, in relation to the size of the goal, so we're done. Just have a huge penalty area, and I don't care about the size of the goal, and give penalties. Now, what that does is, and it's happened, an academy's working on it now, he said he can't believe what's happened. He said players are desperate to get in the penalty area and get a penalty, and the defenders are defending like their life depends on it, you know, because it's a penalty if you get in. Those sort of territorial rules, yeah, and those little changes have a big impact. And you can oversize areas, right? When you talk about variety, you can oversize penalty areas, and you say, "You get in the penalty area", and I can tell you now, the attacking and defending has been so much better. This is an academy. Because they have to. And you see this ridiculous scenario, I see, where the penalty areas are small, they never give penalties. I say, how many penalties? There's none. So, I'm not surprised, because they can't get in the penalty area, you see what I mean? So, they have a free kick on the outside of the penalty area, and everyone blocks it, and all that. No, no, no, have a big penalty area and give penalties. Then the goalkeeper becomes a hero, you know what I mean? So, what you're saying about variety is, you can think about space, time, and numbers, you play around with the competition and your opposition, and you could use space, time, and numbers to do that.
[Jamie]
Probably going to ask one more question before starting to wrap the episode up, and it's something that coaches might, a scenario coaches might actually find, and we've not asked a question about this yet, is that, if you're turning up to a session and players are already looking disinterested, whether it's because of the weather, or anything, and they don't really get the feeling that they want to be there, do you have any top tips to help coaches manage that situation, and player behavior in general at all?
[Paul]
I remember a lad at Manchester United telling me, he said, "What we want kids to do is to run through that door every session". So, if they don't run through the door, they're probably going, "Oh, yeah, I know what we're going to get for the next hour". And it's your responsibility to sort of make sure that that is a signal of what you've been doing, or what you think, what you're doing as a coach. That's not reflective of them, it's reflective of what you're doing, because as I said, even top pros, and I've done it, I have been working with some professionals in lower leagues a couple of seasons ago, and if I get it wrong, they'll walk to practice, and they go, "Oh, do we have to hurry, because we know what's coming here?" But if you get it right, they're going, "Come on, let's go", you know? So, kids are the same. They are unbelievably honest, they'll tell you, and may not tell you in language, but they'll be standing there going, "Really?" The other thing is to look at attendance, who's late, who's not, you know. And it's not their fault, you know, they might be caught in traffic and all that stuff, but any kid missing... And you could get indications of how you're doing as a coach by how they walk into your practice. Are they ready for you, are they waiting for you to go, "Come on, come on, we're ready", or are they going, "Oh, you know what's coming". It's like, passing drill, well, might be that, it might be, "Oh, we're running", or "We've got to do this, that, and the other", then... Do you know what I mean?
[Jamie]
Yeah.
[Paul]
I think the kids are the biggest indicator, 100 per cent, but it is an indication of what's gone on before, or what they think is going to happen. So, if you've got this, if you're a coach that, one, is a bit unpredictable, they don't know what happens, they like that. So, you know the idea of, sometimes have a plan B, and go, "Well, you thought we're doing this, but we're doing this". And if you, then, as I say, manage the competition, and they know that they're going to go home, and whoever's at home says to them, "What did you do tonight", and they can say, "I played football", not, "I learned this, I learned that, and learned this". No, it's a part of that, but that's what they've been doing at school. What they're doing is they're playing football. "I played football tonight". They could say that, you've done all right. But that thing about kids being on... being disinterested, you have to look at it hard yourself. You know, the kid is not disinterested, because it might be something to do with his family, it might be something that's out of your, you know, out of your control, and everything, but ultimately, for them to be motivated, you've got to look really hard at what you've been doing over a period of time.
[Louise]
I guess it's things like, you might think about how you can engage that particular player, if you know them better, like, what it is that you're doing that might not be engaging them specifically, giving them a bit of ownership might help them, or something like that.
[Paul]
Yeah, ownership of, yeah, stuff. Ownership is big for them, particularly with older ones. But in the wintertime, they don't want any ownership, they just want to be told what to do sometimes. You've got to manage that bit. The thing about the ownership thing is, some people take it on better than others, but you brought a brilliant point out, and I wish I'd thought of it, is that you need to... Grassroots coaches are very good at this, they're very good at knowing the individual, or the ones that I know, very good. Because they talk to them as if they're like, they're there for mainly social reasons, you know. And I think that the best coaches are the ones that, you know, know this kid either needs to be left alone, or needs help, or I'll keep an eye on him, or her, I'll help them later. You know what I mean? Or they need to be on this team, or they need to be on that, because of this, this, and this.
The traditional, the thing is, for me, in grassroots, what I've noticed is, because of the physical differences, particularly in teenagers and stuff, you know, sometimes that can be very, very badly managed, and kids fail, you know, just can't do it. You know, that's why you have to be very sensitive, and grassroots coaches, and academy coaches can be so, treat them all as mixed ability. So, who are you going to match up against who? You know, how are you going to give... Because in grassroots, you might have a very good footballer, fast, and they're just not around, and then, oh, we're playing a game, and he's up against, well, there's no challenge, so you have to match him up, you know? You have to somehow think of, that's what I said about managing the challenge. If you manage a challenge, boys and girls, and you get that challenge, you are not going to get it right every time, but if you get it right, more often than not, motivation will take care of itself, and it's the same for all of us, you know. Something's too hard, you back off it a bit. If it's too easy, it's the same thing, you've got to get the balance, don't you?
[Jamie]
Great, well, there's been plenty of stuff in there, Paul. Looking back at everything that we've discussed, can you summarise the key top tips that you would like coaches to take away from this episode?
[Paul]
Yeah, I think there's... just be as adaptive as you can, always have something up your sleeve, or in your pocket, and don't be wedded to the outcome of practices. The trouble with being wedded to an outcome of practices is, you go down this linear route of, I'm going to get there, whatever happens. And you see it all the time. "Oh, I've got a plan", and, "We want to achieve this, so we've got to do this, this, this, in this order". Well, sometimes, in the winter, sometimes you go, "No, we need to start with this bit, because it's freezing cold", and you change that order around. And in fact, you sometimes dismantle the order altogether, and you say, if you're wedded to the outcome, you have a problem with that. You can't be wedded to the outcome, especially, you know, with kids. You've got to be prepared to do, have something different. Now, that takes a bit of planning, and a bit of sometimes ego dropping, for some, and it takes a bit of... It's not easy, but I would always say, have another plan, have plan B, and have C in your pocket, if you need to. And that not wedded to the outcome, it relates to time as well. If the session's an hour and a half, and you're done by an hour, then you're done. And you could say, and I've seen this, if you don't mind me saying, it's, "Session over. If you want a game by yourself, I'm here, I'll stay here, but I'm not doing any more". I've seen that, and it works a treat, and some kids go home, and some stay. So, I think it's more fluidity, and then that shows you're more responsive to the kids, you know. And some of them, I'm talking about big kids as well, by the way. I'm not talking about, I'm talking about 18, 19. They're all built to do the same things, they're all built to be challenged, they're all built to succeed, if they can, and they all do not respond to continual failure. That's what I'm doing, be adaptive and responsive to what's in front of you.
[Louise]
And if we were to ask you to suggest, like, the first thing that someone tries when they're kind of, perhaps, quite new to training in winter, what would be the first thing that you'd suggest that they do?
[Paul]
Yeah, start with a game and keep the score. Straight away, start with a game, whatever you're planning, start with a game, and you'll be amazed at what you can do after that, see what I mean? Because then, they're already immersed. Yeah.
[Jamie]
Love that, love that. Well, we'll just squeeze in this, Paul, because I know that you love the 30-second challenges that we do on this podcast. So, yeah, let's do our swift session feature before we finish.
[Louise]
Yep, so, 30 seconds, and we're going to ask you to give us a session idea in those 30 seconds. Are you up for that?
[Paul]
Yeah. Right, easy one. Two end zones, yeah, like, two final thirds of the pitch, you can't score until you get into that end of the pitch, yes. And you don't have to have goalies, or you do, yes. You can have one team that goes into that zone, and that's their job, and you can have the other team going the other waY that doesn't have that restriction. So, it's not symmetry. One team has a zone to get into, the other team counts double if you score that end, and then you swap them over. Works a treat.
[Louise]
Perfect.
[Jamie]
Nice and succinct as well.
[Louise]
Yeah. Thank you for that.
[Jamie]
Yes, thank you very much. Well, thank you very much for coming and joining us again, Paul. We really do appreciate it, we always love having you on the podcast. Hopefully, you've enjoyed the experience.
[Paul]
It's an interesting topic, because, on the front of it, you wouldn't, someone said, like, "What do you do in winter?" You go, "I never thought of that". Yeah, it's a challenge.
[Louise]
Yeah.
[Paul]
Yeah.
[Jamie]
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack. Like I say, we discussed so many things that, actually, there are loads of things to think about, to keep people motivated, engaged, and to keep sessions running, basically.
[Paul]
Yeah. And I think, like, people say the seasons are changing, but for kids, they get cold, they get wet, and you can have strategies to do it. But I do say, like, stop rushing indoors when you don't have to, because being out, you've got this fantastic, the free air that's out there, you know, but just be aware of the dark. And it does make a difference. There is a different animal. It's a different environment altogether, so you have to be responsive to that.
[Jamie]
Brilliant. Well, thank you very much. Plenty to take away from that episode, for sure.
Well, that is all we do have time for today, but don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode, and for all the links to our platforms.
As always, you can head to the England Football Community to post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast, or you can drop them in the comments section for this episode.
[Louise]
Yep, we'd love to help you out, so please do send your questions in. We'll be back soon with another episode, so if you haven't already, hit Subscribe to make sure you don't miss it. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.