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[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. As always, I'm Jamie and we're joined by Matt Jones today, who's returning to Coachcast to talk about matchday behaviour and the environment you create for the game. Well, hi Matt, welcome back to the show, how are you?

[Matt]
Hi Jamie, thanks for having me. I look forward to diving into the world of matchday and what coaches can do to support that environment for players, parents, spectators, and hopefully I can share a few top tips.

[Jamie]
I'm absolutely sure you will do. Before we kind of get started, for anybody that hasn't tuned in to an episode before, can you kind of give us a reminder of what you do for The FA?

[Matt]
Yes, there's been a few moving pieces at The FA just recently in the world of grassroots coach development, and I'm lucky enough to be a regional manager working with the coach development workforce, and my priority area is the west, so anywhere from Birmingham right down to Cornwall. So, a big geographical area to cover, but it's a really exciting role to be able to support not just coaches, but those that coach the coaches.

[Jamie]
Excellent, excellent. Now, you've been on the podcast a few times before, like you said, and kindly you did actually join us earlier in the season, so we thought we'd do something a little bit different to start the show this time. So, instead of asking you for your top tips in 30 seconds, there won't be a timer for this bit, but we just thought maybe it'd be nice if you could share your favourite coaching story from your journey.

[Matt]
I'm going to take you back to last season, so coaching my son's now Under-9s team, they were Under-8s during their first affiliated football experience, if you like. They were six games in, so I'm on the sideline and my son's playing a version of central midfield, whatever that looks like at 5v5, but really it's just five of his mates on there doing the very best they can.

We're a few minutes into the game and I can see Jacob's getting a bit frustrated, and it became apparent why. The opposition also had a player called Jacob and their coach was using the name Jacob a lot, and my Jacob was then checking his shoulder. And what happened in a split second was, as he's checked his shoulder, one lad has run into him because he hesitated momentarily and that kind of shook him up. So he fell to the ground, he got a little bit upset because he's an emotional soul, probably a bit like his dad, and in that moment, it's a case of he came to the sideline and we had a conversation.

Up to that point, if Jacob had encountered any kind of experience that would disrupt his football, he would usually take the option to come out, which you can obviously do with roll-on/roll-off subs. Anyway, I was talking to the manager on the side, he says, "What do you want to do, Matt, because they're just about to restart". I said, "Just give me a few seconds", and the referee said, "Yep, no problem, take your time". And I just spoke to Jacob, I said, "What would you like to do?" I said, "You could come off or you could go back on". He says, "I'm not really sure". I said, "Well, if you come off, that's happened before and it has helped you".

I said, "But you've never stayed on in a moment like this, so we don't know what's going to happen next, and if you go back on and you're still quite not right, we can always take you off". I said, "So, why don't you go on and you'll learn something about how you're feeling in a moment like this". And he went back on, and fast forward the game, he scored his very first goal. Now, when we got to the end of the game and we're in that classic car journey on the way home, I said to Jacob, "What was your favourite part of the day?", and clearly he said, "Scoring a goal", which I would expect him to. I said, "Do you know what daddy's favourite part of the day was and my proudest moment?" I said, "It wasn't the fact that you scored the goal", I said, "Don't get me wrong, I was super proud".

And inside I was celebrating like them all, running up and down the touchline, although I did remain cool, calm and composed on the sideline, but inside I was that excitable Jose Mourinho-style manager for a moment. I said, "But the proudest thing for me was that you went back on in a moment where you were unsure." I said, "And if you hadn't done that, you might not have been on the pitch at that time to score that goal." I said, "So, that's what I'm proud about, is that resilience, the fact that you gave it another go even when you weren't feeling quite right". I said, "So, I'm always going to remember that on the day that you scored your very first goal. So, yeah, it's a bit of a heartfelt one, but it's an honest one.

[Jamie]
Yeah, no, I like it, especially when I'd asked about, like, saying about a story, that's a nice wholesome one, so thank you very much for sharing that. And it does tie into today's topic a little bit in terms of, like you say, that matchday behaviour and also a bit of respect as well, like the opposition and everything, and obviously the referee allowing that time for you to have that interaction with your son as well is really nice.

[Matt]
And it was just circumstantial. As I say, the opposition manager was using the name Jacob because that's one of his player's names. He wasn't at fault in any way, shape or form, but if I put myself in the shoes of my son in that moment, actually, if someone else is calling your name, you are going to check your shoulder, you are going to hesitate your movement, and that's where the collision happened, so it was completely innocuous. But for that situation to then arise and for me to have an opportunity to try and shape my son's mindset, I suppose, and for him to take the opportunity to stay on, and I'd like to think that what probably helped him was, there was a comfort blanket there. He was going back on, but if he felt he needed to come off, he could, because I think we need to find that balance, don't we?

Children need our support and our care, but sometimes in supporting and caring for them, we need to make sure that we're exposing them to challenges that we know they can undertake, they just need a bit of polite encouragement, and that's a balance which is hard to strike at the best of times, especially when you've got the dynamics of father-son and all the emotions that come with a game, which I'm sure we're going to get stuck into today.

[Jamie]
Fantastic. Well, as you said, you coach obviously in the youth game, but you also coach in the adult women's game, too. So, how do you personally approach matchday as a coach, and what are the similarities and differences of the approach between both teams?

[Matt]
The first thing that springs to mind is, I think there's so much to think about on a matchday, whether it's my son's Under-9s team or, in my case, Women's National League Tier 4. And if there's so much to think about, I think I'll go back to that classic line, if you fail to prepare, then you've got to prepare to fail. So, organisation is key, one of coaching's brilliant basics. So if I'm organised and I'm prepared, then I'm more likely to approach the matchday with confidence, and if I'm confident that it's going to give off an air of, we know what we're doing, we're in this together, and even if we're going to get some what-ifs creep up, we'll go back to the plan, and yes, we might be able to tweak or change, but if we've thought through things thoroughly, and we're prepared for things deviating and going off on different tangents, then we'll be okay.

So I think preparation is key, irrelevant of the age and stage. Obviously, if you get into the nitty-gritty of what preparation looks like for my son's team, just where do you need to be, at what time, have you got your shin pads, your drinks bottle, have you got the right kit, et cetera, et cetera? That's kind of the organisation before you leave the house, and then it's kind of cascading that amongst all of the players through parents and communicating via appropriate means, like WhatsApp and bits and pieces like that. So, yeah, making sure that everybody knows where we're going to be at what time and what stuff you need to bring.

Whereas with the players, I would expect they can take care of themselves in the adult world, although one or two still need a bit of a helping hand, which is fine, because we're all busy people, and the age range of the adult team that I'm lucky enough to coach is from 16 up to mid-30. So we shouldn't forget that those that are Under-18 are still minors, they're still children in the eyes of the law. So, that's not me digging out their organisational skills, but I might challenge their organisation skills differently because they are entering the adult game.

But organisation then creeps into, okay, have you planned your warm-up? What does your warm-up look and feel like? Does your warm-up link to what you were doing midweek? And again, the subtleties between what we would do with the Under-9s in our warm-up and topics we might have covered. So, just recently, we've been working on draw and release. So, non-surprisingly, a lot of our Under-9 players, they like the ball and they struggle to pass the ball, not because they can't, but because they like the ball, or most players like the ball.

And so sharing is a challenge for them. So, we use terms like, you know, you're going to loan the ball, you're going to share the ball, because that's using sort of child-friendly term language. And if you loan something and you move into a good position, you're more likely to get it back.

But we've got some really good ballers in the group. And what we wanted them to understand was, if you've got the ball, can you draw the defender in? And then you've got a choice.

Do you release it to a mate if they're in a good position to support with, say, an overlapping run? Or do you look to play a pass, almost like a bit of faint deception, and then go the other way? But you can only do that if your mate's made a good supportive run.

So, it's that draw and release, or draw and stay on. So we've been working on that throughout the week, or weeks, doing a six-week piece of work, so they've got some sort of consistency and repetition.

So we've then weaved in a practice that replicates that into the warm-up, just for a couple of minutes, where you've got two 2v1 practices and a couple of players then watching and then raring to have a go, because you have like a squad of between 10 and 12, and then we might progress that from a 2v1 to a 3v2. So, there's a classic overload, so they get some confidence.

Don't get me wrong, the defender still has an opportunity to nick the ball and then drive to an end line. So, I think planning your warm-up and getting some returns is another top tip that I would say for coaches to follow. And that's not too dissimilar with the adult players.

Again, we will work on pitch geography, so using the five lanes. So, the middle lane, the outside lane, and the two half spaces. So we do a practice in our warm-up called 'Passing Lanes', where they have to base themselves in these lanes, so they get used to the length, the depth, the width, when they might cross over from one lane into another, and then work through some combinations. So, one-twos, overlaps, up, back and throughs, short, short, long pass. So, yeah, there's a couple of quick examples there about planning your warm-up and getting some returns linked to a scheme of work that you might be addressing.

Thinking about what your matchday behaviour might be like, who's your opposition against? Are they in the league table, is it going to be a close contest? Although top versus bottom throws up a different challenge, doesn't it? It could still be a close contest because you're dominating and not able to break through, or they might score an early goal and they give you a different problem.

Planning out substitutions. You know, when are you going to use your game-changers or your finishers or your impact players? Is that someone you can give time and consideration to prior? So, with the Under-9s, that is something that we can plan out because we believe in equal game time, or enough game time. Whereas with my adult team, it's more a case of, we're there to compete. It's not about participation. It's about competition, and the players understand that. Do I like leaving players out? No, especially if we're travelling away and they're giving up a full day, but I have to be committed to the cause of this is a high performing environment.

So, there's a massive difference in how I manage the game changes and the substitutes. And then, it's a case of, fast forward to the end of the game, win, lose or draw, how are you going to carry yourself? What messages do you want to send to the players as they're leaving the matchday experience?

So, yeah, kind of gone on a whistle-stop tour there of what before, during and after a matchday looks like, but hopefully there's some stuff in there.

[Jamie]
No, no, absolutely. A very effective answer. Thanks for that.

There's a couple of bits that I want to pick out. So, first of all, something that we've kind of echoed on the podcast before is sort of that attention to detail linking training to matchday in that warm-up, because we all have had experiences where it is basically everybody just booting a ball at a goalkeeper, probably to warm up or some laps, but actually that you've kind of taken that care to link training to matchday and actually have some learning objectives as a warm-up that I think can actually be quite crucial and quite effective instead. And then, the other thing you mentioned there about the environment, which links very nicely into the next question, which is, what kind of environment do you actually want to create for players on a matchday?

[Matt]
So, I think words that spring to mind are, it's got to be fun, safe, engaging, but then it's also got to be challenging, because again, if we use the term fun, what does fun look like? So, fun can be obvious, be happy, smiley, successful, but fun can also be challenging. It can be hard work, can be sweating in the physical corner, it can be texting in the psychological corner because of all the decisions you have to make in a game for players.

So, I think, well, how are we preparing the players to endure as well as enjoy? So, there's a relationship there between the two. So, environment is key.

You want players to feel safe, but there's also an element of uncertainty in a game of football, because let's be honest, you could strip it right back to football is, we're trying to score more goals than the opposition, or concede less, depending on how you see it, in possession or out of possession. And we're also trying to outwit our opponent. So, it's like a game of chess. You know, they're moving to strike, we're moving to defend and trying to second guess what the other team's doing.

So I think with that cat and mouse that can happen in a game of football, and sometimes those roles reverse, there's so much happening. And that goes back to, am I organised? Am I planned? Have I got some clarity? Will the players understand the game plan? Because it's not just given to them on the day, it actually refers back to training.

And I think your environment starts at training. We might get into matchday behaviours and think about, what messages am I giving off at training that I also want to give off on a matchday? So, there is that consistency piece and similarity between the way I'm conducting myself.

So, the environment for me is shaped by everybody, coaching staff or volunteers, in the case of my Under-9s, the players themselves, the parents, the spectators. I think it's key to make sure that we're getting the priority right. And so, in the case of Under-9s, we're putting the children at the heart of the experience, remembering that this is their time to shine.

Because, I mean, we play up on the top of a Shropshire hill, but to my son and his mates, that's Wembley, or whichever Premier League stadium they so desire, depending on who they affiliate their support to. So, I think it's important that we remember that and we create an environment around the match, before, during and after, that makes them live out that football fantasy, if you like, knowing that it's reality in the world of grassroots. Environment is key. And I always think, would you want to be part of the environment that you're creating for your players? If so, why? What's the key ingredient to that? Is it your coaching behaviours? Is it practices slash warm-up? Is it the way that you interact with every player as they arrive and make sure that they feel special and a sense of belonging?

Is it, you respond in an appropriate way when they're going through a difficult moment, metaphorically putting an arm around the shoulder, or a few words of wisdom or a thumbs up, or a, let me know how you're feeling? So, your interactions and coaching interventions are key. All these things are going to contribute to the environment and how they're made to feel as players or participants in a sport.

So, I think we have to accept and shoulder a lot of responsibility that the environment is shaped by the head coach who's leading it, but that actually we should be considering who's at the heart of it and empowering others to help contribute to that, because it is a collective effort in the grassroots world. It's shaped by volunteers, and in this case of the adult game, it's still shaped by a lot of volunteers, by the way, but we are teams working together for the good of the players and their experience.

[Jamie]
I like that. If there's a coach that's tuning into this and they're on the way to a game right now, what's one piece of advice you can give to help them create a great matchday environment as soon as they arrive?

[Matt]
Be consistent. So, I'll share a story with you. We were delivering, I think it was during the pandemic, we were delivering an online version of The FA Level 1, as it was once known, now Introduction To Coaching Football.

And so, we were actually asking questions about matchday, and this coach volunteered. He said, "Matt, something you've said just really got me thinking". He said, "I'm now contemplating how I behave at training compared to on a matchday".

And so I said, "Do you mind me just asking, you know, just expand a little bit for us. What do you mean?" He says, "Well, I've realised that, at training, I'm quite jovial, happy go lucky, I'll high-five every kid".

I think he was, from memory, referring to them being sort of 10, 11 years old. So, top end of Foundation Phase. I said, "Okay, and what's different about your matchday?" He says, "Matchday, I'm really serious". He said, "I demand things from them, I'm very much performance-focused". I went "Right, okay. So here's my killer question to you".

And this was with other Under coaches. I said, "So, I hope you don't mind me asking". He said, "Of course, I don't".

I said, "What do you think your message is to your players there? What are they perceiving around your behaviours?" And he paused. He said, "Maybe I'm sending out mixed messages?" "Okay, so maybe they're a bit confused", I said, "because they're getting one version of you in training and one version on a matchday". I said, "Players probably want authenticity and consistency. So I'm not saying there isn't a time to demand things from your players. Obviously, think about how you do it, because again, you're working with children, they're 10 and 11, and that might look and feel very different in the adult environment". I said, "But they also want to know that you are the person that they can rely on, and that's built by consistency of your behaviours. So, if you are behaving differently on a matchday, think about what that's going to do to their psychological corner. An interesting question would be to ask your players, which version of you do they like? And I'm probably going to gamble and say they, in the main, probably prefer the version of you at training because there's someone, or they see you as someone, who they can approach more, because you're making yourself more approachable. Whereas, if you are a little bit more straight-laced and focussing, dare I say, more on how you're going to play and what might come as the end result", I said, "they might be a little bit more anxious, nervous, stepping on eggshells".

I said, "So, how does that sit with you?" And, you know, this was a conversation that sort of came out of nowhere on a webinar, but it seemed to go on for a good five, 10 minutes. And the learning that was taking place was pretty phenomenal, because I thought it was a coach showing their vulnerability, but they were also trying to develop their self-awareness, which is a key part of the coach development framework for us now, in terms of coach, player, game, three key areas to learn about.

What sits at the heart of that, for a coach, is their self-awareness. And for that coach to share that with us on a public platform, albeit a closed one, because it was people completing a qualification, just gave us a real chance to explore that learning. And I'm fairly confident that the chat box backed this up, that there were a lot of coaches going, yeah, I can relate to that.

So, it's that Jekyll and Hyde, not necessarily healthy, but I think it was being done unintentionally. But the self-awareness is what got that coach to that learning. And the fact that it was shared in front of so many other coaches almost had that like knock-on domino effect.

And I think the message was, just be consistent, be consistent. What kind of coach do you want to be? And be authentic to the audience in front of you.

What do they need from you at any given time? But if you're opposite ends of the spectrum, from training to matchday, don't be surprised if that does affect the environment and cause the players to behave differently. And they need an element of consistency in their actions and behaviours as well.

[Jamie]
Do you have any top tips to kind of help people kind of remember to be authentic and remember to have that consistency? I've never stood on the sideline on a matchday, so I don't know what the pressure might be like in certain contexts, but do you have any sort of like experiences and top tips from your journey that could help people with that?

[Matt]
I would say it comes back to, what's your morals, values and beliefs? And this comes back to, is it a philosophy, is it ideology? Call it what you will. What's important to you? So, how do you want to be known as a coach?

Another great story that I pinched off a colleague, what does success look like in the grassroots game? So imagine you're coaching, I'll say my Under-9s team. What do I want my Under-9s team, in 10 years' time, when they're 19 and we're in a local supermarket, and I'm walking one way down the aisle and they're walking the other way down the aisle, maybe they're doing shopping because they're studying at a local university or whatever it might be, what do you want that interaction to be like? Do you want them to turn around and go, "Oh, hi Matt, great to see you, lovely to bump into you, I wasn't expecting. Oh, do you remember the good old days when we were playing grassroots football and you were coaching games and we were having fun, and sometimes we were winning, sometimes we were losing? But do you know what? It was a great experience."

Do you want them to have the confidence to have the conversation with you, and then do you want the conversation to sound like that?

In which case, that starts now, because it could be that, in 10 years' time, if you have behaved a particular way and they've not enjoyed the experience, they might just walk past you in the aisle 10 years from now. And so, it's a bit of a fast-forwarded out-of-body experience, but I think it's a really good one to go, what do you want your players to think about you in the future?

And that comes back to, how do I conduct myself here and now? And the only way they're going to be able to judge me over a few years, because hopefully successes, they keep coming back to an environment so good they don't want to leave, is my consistency of behaviours. And that is anchored down by my morals, values and beliefs.

So, if I believe in something, I need to demonstrate it. But I always come back to, remember the age and stage of your players, because it's okay to want to win a game of football, but win at all costs in the grassroots game is detrimental to their development and enjoyment. I don't know kids that like to lose, and I don't know kids that turn up and say, "Today, I want to lose", but I also know a lot of kids that turn up and would say, "I still want to have fun, I still want to get better. I still want to be with my mates. I want to feel safe and challenged appropriately." So, yeah, striking that balance.

[Jamie]
Kind of touched on it there, but like, how important is managing your own behaviour? Like, can it set the tone, not just for the players, but also other coaches or the parents on the sideline?

[Matt]
It can definitely set the tone. I think you are a representation of the club, and your players are a representation of you. So, yes, every child comes from a different environment, or environments, in terms of home, school, other clubs they might be part of.

But when they're out there performing, they are your responsibility. So it's accepting that and embracing that, right from training when they turn up and leave, and right on a matchday from when they turn up and leave and all the interactions in between. So, everyone has the opportunity to contribute to that.

But as they are a representation of you and you're steering the ship, I think you have a duty of care to make sure that you are conducting yourself in the best way possible. That's not to say that, especially in mini soccer, children's youth football, that they won't have moments of randomness and they might be a bit erratic, because it's children playing the children's game, and they are just young people who are trying to figure their way out at this moment in time on a football pitch where there's so much going on, and there might be a late challenge unintentionally.

There might be a missed decision by a referee who also could be a child. So, 15, 16, refereeing the game. God forbid, they make a mistake while they're learning their trade in the middle of the pitch, which is a highly stressful situation for anybody, let alone a 15-year-old.

So I think we have a duty of care as grassroots coaches to make sure we're supporting not just our young players, but also the person in the middle who's been brave enough to go, "Yeah, I'll blow the whistle", irrelevant of whether they're lucky enough to get 10, 15, 20 pound a game, because sometimes that doesn't cover the cost for the opinions that they have to deal with. So, yes, in essence, I think it's our responsibility to make sure that we're managing that environment for all children and young people, and the parents and spectators have a responsibility as well to look beyond just supporting their child and making sure that it's a healthy environment for all children that are playing.

[Jamie]
How do you help players kind of feel kind of safe in that environment, which we've touched on a little bit, but then feel like they're not pressured in a game?

[Matt]
So, obviously, respect has been a huge thing that The FA have been pushing for a number of years. And I think just demonstrating that respect, obviously there's different levels, people have different interpretations of it, but I would like to think that the majority of people know the difference between right and wrong. I think a coach has a responsibility sometimes to remind the parents that it is children playing this game.

If we're focussing in on, you know, mini-soccer momentarily, but even in the youth game, Under-16s, even Under-18s, they're still children and young people learning to play a game. You know, I watched an interview the other day with a high-profile footballer, and he's turning around going, "Yeah, I'm 21 years old, I've got two seasons under my belt, but I'm still learning".

Now what a message that is to send. And I think parents and spectators, yes, they can understandably, sometimes, get lost in the excitement, especially if they see their child have a glorious moment, like I did with my son at the start of this podcast. When I'm sharing that story, internally, I was, you know, swinging off the ceiling. You should be allowed to enjoy it as a parent and spectator.

It's just knowing when that enthusiasm spills over and you become over-enthusiastic about some of the things that really don't matter, because every pass, every dribble doesn't need to be celebrated so openly and so loudly, even though I know the parent means well. And it's finding that balance, which is a word I'm using a lot in this podcast, but I won't apologise for that because I genuinely think that that is a key word. It's finding a balanced approach.

I mean, we're now in a situation whereby we're having silent weekends, and that's because the noise around a matchday is so intense. And if you are six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years old and you're dealing with noise from your teammates, from the opponents, from your manager and/or coaches, from the opposition managers or coaches, and then you've got parents and spectators giving individual bits of information to their sons and daughters, that is a lot.

That is a heck of a lot to compute for anyone, let alone a child. And then you throw in all the decisions that come with a game of football. Do you pass? Do you dribble? Do you turn? What do you do with your first touch? How soon do you get a shot off, if you can? If you're out of possession, do you press, or do you sit, show discipline and deny space in behind?

Whatever it is, there's so much going on. And I don't know if I ever shared this story on a previous podcast, but around this, I did some unofficial research a number of years ago, when I had the time to get around quite a lot of grassroots football in quick succession. And I looked at sort of a mini soccer game and a youth football game, and I tried to do so many games in each of those age groups.

And across the course of about 20 games that I got to, I was just trying to observe the impact of the people on the sideline and what that was doing in the way of affecting the players on the pitch. And what came out of it rather interestingly was, okay, little Johnny or little Josephine will get possession of the ball and they will drift towards one side of the pitch. And the coach will say, "Do this, do that, do the other".

And little Johnny or Josephine would then try to do it to appease the coach. So straight away, I'm thinking, well, who's the player playing for? Is it themselves or is it the coach?

I'm not saying the coach wasn't helpful in some of their information, because they want their player or players to do well. So, I know it came from a good place, but they were still giving information, and the players then having to make sense of it. And they were sometimes trying to do what the coach was asking.

Then they might get possession of the ball a few minutes later and they drift towards the other side of the pitch, which is where the parents and spectators might be, behind the respective barrier. And so the first thing to lift out there is, well, what the parents and spectators are saying and what the coach was saying were usually totally different things. So the coach might've been saying, "Take a touch, enjoy the ball. If you can lift your head, pick a pass or be brave and stay on it and drive, dribble".

Parents were saying, "Put your foot through the thing, get rid of it. You're too close to our goal. Don't mess about with it there."

So, already you can see that confusion setting in between the players. They're going, "Wow, what is happening?" They then drift towards the middle. So little Johnny or Josephine has possession of the ball. And there might be what the coach is saying on one side and what the parents and spectators are saying on the other side. So, they're checking both shoulders, and in that moment, the opposition just nips in and steals possession of the ball.

And what was the realisation for me was that the players were becoming so self-reliant upon that dictatorship from the sideline, they couldn't think for themselves. They could not think for themselves.

So a few moments ago, when you asked me about, you know, what helps a coach be consistent with their actions is, if I go back to my philosophy and ideology, is that I know there's going to be a time or place when I need to give information or I might need to command, but I'm also a big believer in trial and error. And you can replace trial and error with trial and success, because, actually, if you let players have a go, they might just impress you and/or surprise you, even on a matchday.

And I know it's hard because they might make a mistake and, God forbid, they concede a goal, that is something that they'd have to recover from. But I can live with that because I'm prepared, going back to, 'Preparation's key'.

I know that my players might have a difficult moment in the game. But if I'm prepared to deal with that, and part of my philosophy is, I'm going to let them go and explore and trial stuff out, and they might have an error or a mistake, but they also might succeed, I'm prepared to trade that off.

But I can only do that if I give them the opportunity. And that links to my philosophy and ideology because I'm a big believer in, I want to develop players who can think for themselves. Yes, I might have some answers, but I don't have all of them.

And actually the game is moving at a rate of knots. Actually, when I played it, it's very, very different now to when children are playing it because I played 11v11 football. They're now playing 5v5.

The parents and spectators are closer to the game. What's that doing for that volume of noise and input from the sideline? I don't know, because I was playing on a bigger pitch.

So, all of these things come to life for me around this topic, around managing the matchday, a coach conducting themself right, how to manage parents and spectators to make sure that it's a healthy one, but no less competitive, because it's okay to want to compete. Of course, it is. I don't know kids, as I said, that turn up and today say, "Matt, today I want to lose".

It's not about that, but it's about winning at the right things. And I always think back to, what does success look like? And I came up with this kind of word sum. So, fun plus development equals success. So, if I was to give you three main reasons for playing football, you could argue that these are the three main reasons. So, three main reasons would be fun, development, and success.

So, if I was to say to everybody on this podcast, when was the last time you took part in a hobby that you didn't enjoy? I think people would find it hard to answer, because if you didn't enjoy it after a few sessions, chances are you went and spent your time doing something else. So, fun's important, slash enjoyment.

Development. Do you want to get better or worse at something? Chances are people are saying, "I want to get better".

And if coaches are giving up time, like they are due to listen to this podcast, hopefully they're going to pick up on a few pearls that make them one or two per cent better. So, we're providing an environment where it's fun and enjoyable and they're getting better. Chances are that's going to lead to a greater chance of success.

Success could be winning, it could be. But success could also be passing the ball in a straight line, having the confidence to dribble with it for five, 10, maybe even 15 seconds and round an opponent or maybe two, having the bravery out of possession to engage in a 1v1 duel and come away with the ball.

So success, actually, for me, contributes to a win, but it might contribute to a draw. It could be, we go from losing a game by five to three, maybe losing 3-1 and scoring our first goal. My point is, if we focus too much on the outcome of success being winning, and not enough on what we can control, in terms of controllables around creating a fun, enjoyable environment, developing them through some appropriate coaching, challenging and stretching them in an engaging way, if we focus in on the wrong things and not the right things, we're not going to create the environment that we want, and we're not going to take players on this journey of development and have them enjoy that roller coaster ride, because we are outcome-focused rather than process-driven. I genuinely believe that coaches should invest time on the process, because people always talk about, trust the process. You can only trust what you know, and what you need to know is your own process.

So, what does coaching look like for you and what do you want to be known as a coach, and what do you want to deliver to your players in the way of messages, practices, games, and then what does that look like on a matchday? Because your matchday is a representation of everything you've been doing during the week, and that then comes back to the consistency piece around how we might conduct ourselves as coaches.

[Jamie]
Do you think it's important, like, is there a piece of work there for coaches to almost get to help with behaviour and also to get everybody aligned to kind of, like with parents or other coaches, kind of say, what success might look like or what good behaviour, what a good environment looks like, what you're wanting to actually create for the players on matchday?

[Matt]
I do, yeah, and I know other people that have sat in this chair will have said this. How do parents know what they don't know, or how do they know what they don't know yet? So, we can't sometimes assume that they know what good looks like. So if we're coaches giving up our time going on courses, workshops, CPD, listening to podcasts, whatever it is, we're exposing ourselves to hopefully good messages and good practice. We've then got to be able to share that and drip-feed it in, but without teaching the parents to suck eggs, and it's a fine balance. But I also think a coach has got to embrace, not fear, the responsibility of drip-feeding that education in.

So beginning at the start of the season with a five, 10, 15-minute chalk and talk, I don't know, call it whatever you will, a meeting of some description, so you might arrange to book out a local community centre, you might ask parents to arrive or stay late after a training session to make best use of time. Create a space where you're going to have an informal conversation about what good looks like, share a bit about your philosophy, share a bit about what the code of conduct is, because that's there for not just staff and players, but it's there for parents and spectators.

Give them some tips of how you would hope that they're going to behave on a matchday to help you help their children, because they need to know that they are an integral part of the experience for their children, not just on matchday, but the journey to and the journey from, and that's something that's discussed at length in the world of coach development, and that's something that can really shape a player's mindset before and after a game, is, what information is being fed to them by the parent in the car or the guardian?

So I think, if you have a conversation as early as possible with your parents and spectators about what good looks like, link it to the code of conduct you've always got to refer to throughout the season, and I've even drip-fed in that story around fun plus development equals success, and put winning in brackets, because I think, if you put winning on there, if you do have some parents who see winning as important, you're then acknowledging, I'm not dismissing winning, winning is success in the game, but it's one way of defining success. And no team has ever won 100 percent of their games, they haven't. So, if you're defining winning as success, you're on a hiding to nothing, and you're then falling from a very steep cliff when the team does lose.

I'm not saying we should be satisfied with losing, I'm not saying that at all, but we need to be highlighting the small wins all around the pitch, because that's going to help them enjoy the experience of learning, and in games, when they do lose or they draw, they're still coming out of it with a feeling of success. And I can remember speaking to a coach, and he had been working on attacking from wide areas, so overlaps or underlaps, and in this particular game, he'd seen the full-backs, because they were playing 11v11, make 10 overlap runs, or underlaps, so making a decision in those wide areas to make a forward run to support and try and play forward. And I said, "How many of those runs were a good decision?" So, well-timed, did it add value to the play? He said, "Probably about seven". I said, "So that's 70 per cent". I said, "If you are a win-at-all-costs coach and they lost the game 2-1", I said, "what won't you do?" He said, "Well, I won't praise them for that". I said, "What are you thinking now?" He said, "Well, that's a travesty, isn't it?" He said, "I've been working on attacking from wide areas, they've made 10 of those runs in the game, the heat of battle, seven of them have added value". That's 70 percent. If someone had offered me 70 per cent in every school exam I've been through, I would have taken it, let me tell you now, Jamie. Especially maths, although I did get a C-plus, I'm proud about that. But 70 per cent, performing something well they've been working on in training. If you're a win-at-all-costs, you're going to leave that game unhappy and not acknowledge that. I said, "What did you do?" He said, "No, Matt, I did praise it". I said, "Great". I said, "You can still be upset and disappointed about a defeat". Of course, you can, absolutely allowed, going back to what I said earlier, no one turns up and says, "Today, I want to lose." You've tried to win and you've tried to attack from wide areas, and you've done it really well, 70 per cent of the time that you've chosen to play that particular two-player combination. I said, "If you don't praise it, what's going to happen, the players will forget it". I said, "The fact that you did is brilliant". That's good coaching from that coach.

[Jamie]
No, absolutely. I'm going to ask you to be a little bit vulnerable now, just like that coach was on that webinar, or that course earlier from that story that you said. Have you ever reflected sort of like on your matchday behaviour, and thought, I've maybe not done that well there, or equally gone, actually, I did well there, and then what was the outcome of that reflection at all?

[Matt]
Yeah, I mean, the one that I felt I did well was the one that I shared at the start of the podcast, which was a particularly poignant moment because it involved my son, but I was in the role of a coach working with him as a player. I've had many, which is my vulnerability showing, where I've reflected both in action and then after action, going, did I handle that well enough? Because I think it's important, going back to the self-awareness piece, to ask yourself first, before you look at pointing fingers if something hasn't gone so well, is, why did that happen, and what was my role in that? And sometimes it can just be your terminology, so your intent is right, but your terminology is wrong. So, I had a moment with a player in the adult game whereby I've pulled them to one side, and I'm trying to remember... there's what you want to say and then there's what you actually say. So your tone and your terminology is sometimes on point or not, and I can remember saying to our captain who, for me, was starting to lose her head a little bit in the moment, and you're thinking, well, if I lose my captain that's the knock-on effect to the team, and go back to the earlier question that you asked me about, how important are a coach's behaviours to the rest of the team? They are a reflection. A key relationship, arguably, the single most biggest, with any of your players, is your captain, isn't it? Especially in the adult game, when you can lean on them a bit more, you can share a bit more insight. But I could see that my captain was in a moment of vulnerability, and they needed a position of strength from me. And I think I said something along the lines of, "You're starting to lose your way". And if I played that out in my head, I'm going, was that the right thing for that player to hear at that moment in time? Probably not. I wanted them to know that I'd acknowledged that they were having a vulnerable moment, and what they needed from me was acknowledgement, yes, but then also to help them snap out of it. So I don't think my language or terminology was as helpful as it could have been. And when I reflected and then we had a conversation on Tuesday, I said, "Just take me back to that moment, how did it make you feel?" So I was going to get some feedback, and she said it was interesting. She said, "Because you didn't associate me with being glass half empty, you associated me with being glass half full". And I took that as really good feedback. She said, "What you said and how you said it, in that moment, surprised me". And I went, "Oh, that's interesting". And in my head, I said to her, "I was trying to shock you, I was trying to like give you that shock factor". I said, "But I realised, in the moment, it didn't work". And what I should have said was something along the lines of, I can see what's happening. So, not saying it's either good or bad, I can see what is happening. Like, what do you need from me? I said, "Would that have helped?" And she's gone, "That would have been 10 times better". And then I said to her, "If I've asked you a question I don't think you've got the answer, I'm then also going to answer it for you". I'm going to say, what do you need from me? Do you know what I think you need from me? I think you need to hear from me, in this moment, that you are wearing that captain's armband for a reason, and despite all the chaos of the game and the fact that that player might be pushing your buttons and the fact the referee might have got a decision wrong and you're still irate about it, you need to live in the next moment, not the last moment, because it is not healthy to relive what you can't change, and also, if you're living in the past and not in the next moment, you are not fully committed. I said, "What a shame that would be if you're not the best version of yourself in that next moment". So we had this more lengthy conversation, which you probably can't have on the side of a pitch, but my reflection in that moment led to that conversation, and now it's helped shape any moment I have dealing with my captain when she shows any kind of vulnerability. We can almost go back to that, and I stole that from a podcast and/or video that I found on Roger Federer, when he graduated, his words, which I thought were clever, he didn't retire, he graduated tennis and he was given an honorary degree. He was asked about his career and how he managed his mental resilience. And the statistic I think he gives out was, he says, of all the matches that he played, he won something like 78, 79 per cent of the matches, which is pretty good, I have to say. He's obviously useful with a tennis racket. But then, he goes on to say, "How many points, percentage-wise, do you think I won in those matches?" And of course, the audience paused, I paused listening to it at home. He won like 53 or 54 per cent, so just over half. So, he's emphasising the point that, if he didn't get good at dealing with a momentary setback, which in the case of tennis is losing a point, he would never be able to come out of a game, because he could never fully commit to the next point.

He didn't ignore any lesson, because, of course, if he's come up short in a point, because he didn't react quick enough, or he didn't put enough topspin on, or power, or hit cross-court where he should have hit down the line, or whatever it is. So, shot selection.

If he didn't carry forward the lesson, he wouldn't learn, granted. But if he was always reliving the failure, he wasn't clearing his mindset going into the next point. And here's where tennis is different to football, because the next point comes thick and fast.

But I would also say that tennis can be similar to football, because the next moment in football might not involve scoring a goal, but it might involve getting back into position, or regaining possession, or making a decision on the ball, which decides whether or not we keep the ball or the opposition nicks it. So actually, there is similarity in there. And so I love that next point in his mode of thinking, or as I interpreted it, next moment.

That's the term I now use with a lot of my players, and I definitely use it with my captain. Next moment, next moment, next moment, because the last moment has come and gone. So you commit to the next moment.

[Jamie]
Thank you very much for sharing that story. I really appreciate you being open and honest about it. And I think that's quite a great learning opportunity as well to actually get feedback from your captain and go, "What are your thoughts on that?" That's a really good learning moment for coaches.

[Matt]
Yeah. And it's one that stuck with me. As I say, it's rippled. Yeah, your timing, your tone, and your terminology.

So the three T's, if you like. I think those are to be considered, on a matchday, with your interventions, like they are, a coaching session, but definitely on a matchday when you know that emotions are probably heightened for your players, especially if you're doing it mid-game, where there might be a tactical timeout, or a player's gone down injured, and you just happen to have a moment with a player or a group of players.

[Jamie]
Talking about player behaviour, then, what would you say are your top-three tips for supporting players with behaviour on a matchday?

[Matt]
Patience. I think you need that with adults and children, because if you put yourself in their position as a former player, you know what's going around their head, and not just in the game, but what they are bringing to the pitch from outside football, especially in the adult world. So, I think that patience, and then that probably links to understanding what's going on.

So patience and understanding probably go hand in hand, because if you can't understand player behaviour, you can't help. So, I think probably I would squeeze in, you can only understand if you've got prior knowledge. This comes back to the preparation piece.

So if there's so much going on in any given week of football, training to matchday, you're preparing. Can you arm yourself with information on where players are at in any given week? So, whether it's my son's Under-9s team, and they might have had a good day at school, they might have had a bad day at school on the Friday, but they come into a game on the Saturday morning, it might have been bonfire night, you know, whatever it is, just something that gets you understanding where they're at.

But it also gets them understanding that you care about them. That classic, they don't care what I know until they know that I care about them as people. So having these little conversations as players arrive about, "Oh, how was your school day yesterday?" And, "Oh, did you enjoy little Johnny's birthday party during the week?", or whatever it might be, or, "Heard you scored a goal for the school football team", or, "You did well at that athletics event", whatever it is, just something to socially connect, engage where they're at.

And if they have had a difficult week, almost acknowledging it, so that you're putting it in your back pocket mentally to go, if so and so is a little bit upset, maybe I know why, because they've got something personal going on in their life. And that's where knowing the person behind the player is key, because then you can be patient and understanding. And it's the same with my adult team.

You know, some of my adult players, they work in so many different occupations, from being schoolteachers, to being in the police force, to being lecturers, you know, and all of the stresses and strains that come with the modern working life. If I've got some understanding around that, I'm going to understand their player behaviour in a match where it might be really, really close. And because we might be chasing three points, because we're talking about adult National League football, where winning matters more, and there is an element of performance is critical here, then all of those things are heightened.

I've got to understand my players as people, because it's the only way I'm going to get the best version out of them as footballers and athletes, bearing in mind we're trying to be high-performing in that environment. So, yeah, knowing the person, patience, understanding, carrying out duty of care, being able to listen and empathise, just reminding them I've been a player, but then finding that balance again, about not making it about me, even though I might refer to some of my playing days, because I need the player to know that this is about them, but maybe drawing on some of my playing experiences when I feel it's right, and then sharing that. So I can only do that if I've got a really good relationship and understanding of who's in front of me.

[Jamie]
Yeah, it all goes down to actually really knowing your players, doesn't it, effectively?

[Matt]
It does, and relationships. Well, they make the world go round, don't they? They can either help or hinder anything in this world, and none more so than a coach trying to steer a group of players through a matchday, which can be, yeah, a world of emotions.

[Jamie]
Now, I appreciate it's everybody's responsibility to make matchday a fun experience, but what steps can a coach and a team or club take to ensure respect is shown and that matchday can go smoothly?

[Matt]
So, commit to what you've agreed in the way of, you know, everything listed in that code of conduct, for me is common sense, and again, I think that's important that we say that, knowing the difference between right and wrong. And looking at that list of how to act and behave is a kind reminder. And so go back to, if you're presenting that at the start of the season and it's there as a reminder, I always say to grassroots coaches, you know, if you can borrow the laminator at work, print it off, laminate it, because we're partial to some wet weather in this country, and then you as a coach have got a copy of it pitchside. It's not that you want to catch your parents out. If anything, you want to catch them in. Same mentality we would take with our players. Don't just critique your players on what they're not doing well. Spot them doing things well and build them up. It's the same for parents and spectators, otherwise they're more likely to put up the guard and rival your views on how they should or shouldn't behave on the sideline because they see you as a dictator. You know, you never want to get to that stage where you go, that's unacceptable, because we're talking about parents in the main who have got children on that pitch and they surely want the best for not just their children, but their children's mates, and yes, there's always a case of, we're trying to beat the opposition because it's a game and we should enjoy that element of competition, but we shouldn't also forget that they are children and young people running around on a pitch, trying to have some fun on a Saturday or Sunday. So let's make sure that we're doing our bit, so, yeah, whether it's picking and choosing how often you say something, how you say it, when you say it, and who you say it to, I think checking and challenging yourself on some of that, and this goes back to one of the things I've learned is, as a coach, less is more. What does my son need to hear from me as the coach? If I'm a spectator, what does he need to hear from me? Because sometimes, one of the things, and it might be a question you come on to, that we've started to manage as a group of coaches is, there's four or five dads that share the responsibility. Well, we don't need all four or five of us in the dugout, if we can call it a dugout, which is a few cones marked out on our side of the pitch to make it look like a dugout, because it makes it special for the players. And it also has an element of order, going back to that organisation, kids know where they're putting their drinks bottles and stuff like that. So, we sometimes try and only have two, maybe even three, in our dugout, and the other two coaching parents go and enjoy the game from the other side, and we try and rotate it. So I think that's a good, top tip if you're lucky enough to have that many volunteer coaching mums and dads. And when you're over there, we can then be a supportive parent, but then also we're able to eavesdrop a little bit as to what's going on. So that's another top tip. Even if you've only got two coaches, I see it a lot now, one coach stays on the coaching side, and the other coach sometimes goes over to the parent side. Now they shouldn't have to, and again, you don't want to make it seem like to the parents you're there as an enforcer or some part of the grassroots football police squad. That's the last thing you want to make them feel, you want them to enjoy watching their son or daughter, but if you are a little bit nervous about what they might do or say at any given time, again, it's our responsibility and duty of care as grassroots coaches to make sure we're managing that. Obviously, we do have respect marshals, and I know that Respect Leagues will send out their league volunteers to make sure that that is managed, but I would hope we live in a world where 99.9 per cent of parents and spectators do know how to behave on a pitchside, can be supportive of both their child and the opposition's children, because it's an environment that we should all feel safe in and all enjoy.

[Jamie]
Absolutely. I think, since we're talking about respect, I think it's a good opportunity just to say that we do have a free respect e-learning module, which you can take. And if you're interested in that, simply head to the courses page on the England Football Learning website and you will find a banner on there linking to it. So, do go and check that out. Now, we've kept you for quite a while, Matt, and do really appreciate your time, so we've just got a couple of little quick things to do before we wrap up because we've got about five minutes. We're just going to give a couple of quick fire questions. What's one thing coaches should stop doing, and one thing they should start doing on matchday?

[Matt]
Well, they should stop demanding, and/or commanding, every little thing that they want each player to do, because that's not allowing the players to enjoy the game and think for themselves. A little bit of help absolutely goes a long way, but I go back to, less is more. And in the world of mini soccer, use your quarterly splits wisely to drip-feed in that information, whilst giving some polite guidance and encouragement from the side, absolutely. So, less is more. And in terms of what a coach should start doing, I'm a big believer in personalising things. So I know, on previous podcasts, I've mentioned about using named cones as a micro pitch, like a tactics board on the floor, with our whiteboard, so small, classic, white tactics board. I've given the magnets names so that the players can understand messages more easily, and you could argue there's some returns in there for English teachers, because they're having to read what's on the whiteboard, as well as associate their names. So there's some returns, hopefully, there in terms of teaching, learning and pedagogy, but something you could do is you could give the magnets to each player, ask them to take it away at training, and then they could bring it on a matchday with a picture of themselves so they can actually see their happy, smiley face on a magnet. So that's one thing I would encourage coaches to do, is to start to personalise the way you communicate, especially if you do use tactics boards. Just make sure you don't lose the magnet with their face on because otherwise they're going to think that you don't like them, or that you've got favourites. So, yeah, don't be doing that. But personalise things, is what I would do. Even as simple as, if you haven't got the time to make personalised magnets, just make sure you're using the players' names more and getting down to their level, especially in mini soccer, because it can be daunting. So, if you're stood tall because you're twice as high as them, and you're giving out orders or commands, which is the one thing I would say, resist doing if you can, just get down to their level because then it reminds them that they are of equal, and it'll just calm any kind of situation which is already heightened because it's a matchday and there's lots of anxiety around.

[Jamie]
And can you finish this sentence, the best thing a coach can do to improve behaviour on matchday is...

[Matt]
So, coach on a matchday to your players as you would want to receive, knowing that it's what you work for, it's matchday, it's the thing they look forward to as players, so you as a coach need to make sure that you are supporting them in that from start to middle to end.

[Jamie]
And just thinking about like a challenge, based on what we've been talking about today, what challenge would you like to set the listeners that are tuning into this?

[Matt]
What's your longest period of silence on a matchday? So, I know it's one that's used at coaching, and you could argue that coaching, there's less eyes on you, because I'm not saying some parents and spectators in the world of grassroots football don't hang around to watch, because they do, but there's probably more eyes and ears and opinions flying around on a matchday for a grassroots coach. So, what is your longest period of silence?

Because if you go back to your philosophy and ideology, and mine is, letting the kids think for themselves, I'm not saying I don't give information from the sideline, because I do, and I'm certainly not saying that, occasionally, I don't command or give a command. A command can sometimes be a polite ask, rather than an aggressive demand, and that's the thing you've got to be careful of, going back to tone terminology, but come back to the time. How much time do you spend giving information from the side?

Because if it's too much, I would argue you've not used your training session well enough, or you've not been clear enough on your brief, or you're giving them too much information because you expect them to know something that they just haven't computed or registered yet. So, I come back to the time, and it's a great question to ask yourself. And if you do work with a fellow coach, get your fellow coaching mate to record your longest period of silence. So, I know I've mentioned before, one of the best ways to do that is to get your hands-free kit, clip it into your phone, trigger your voice note on your smartphone, and just clip it to your lapel with like a paper clip.

You don't need anything fancy that you shouldn't already have in your technology bag, and then you can record your voice throughout the whole matchday, and then replay it back to yourself in the car. And you'll be able to hear everything, and you will, you'll learn so much about yourself.

[Jamie]
Right, we are coming up to the end of the show, Matt, but we were just squeezing our swift-session feature. So, I'm going to give you 30 seconds to give us a bit of a practice or a session idea, basically, for coaches to take away and use at training. Are you up for that challenge?

[Matt]
I am indeed.

[Jamie]
Okay. So I'm going to set your 30 seconds, and when the timer starts, you can begin.

[Matt]
So, I'm going to steal a classic game from the former module once called "Score First and Win". So, four team players, two goalkeepers, one in each goal. It's a split practice, one practice, one side, one practice, the other, and you've got two 3v3s effectively taking place, but it's the first team to score a goal wins.

So, if the attacking team on one half of the pitch scores first, it doesn't matter if the other team scores two seconds later, the game is over. So, score first and win, classic counter-attacking. It's the same for the defending team as well, who can break to the halfway line the quickest.

[Jamie]
Well, thank you very much for your time today, Matt, I really appreciate it. Some really great stories, appreciate you sharing your experiences from your journey as well, and then talking about matchday behaviour, creating environments, so much for people to take away. Hopefully, you've enjoyed being on the show again.

[Matt]
I have, yeah. And I suppose my final takeaway tip would be, make sure that you as coaches are enjoying the matchday, because I think that gets lost, but it comes down to your preparation, it comes down to your consistency of behaviours. And if you can, yeah, really pin down what's important to you, that'll shape your behaviours and, yeah, the more time spent preparing, you'll thank yourself for it when you get into the thick of matchday, because then things start to take care of itself, especially if you've delegated to those around who can help you, and maybe put some ownership on the players the older that they get.

[Jamie]
Fantastic. Right, well, that is all we have time for today, but don't forget to check out the description for the transcription of this episode and for all the links to our platforms. As always, you can head to the England Football Community to post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast, or you can drop them in the comments section for this episode. We'd absolutely love to help you out, so please do send your questions in.

We'll be back soon with an episode focussing on session management and keeping players engaged in training during the winter. So, if you haven't already hit Subscribe to make sure you don't miss it. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.