[00:00:09,519] [Jamie:] Hello and welcome to CoachCast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to Sam Griffiths, an FA coach development officer for women and girls to discover her journey so far and her advice for handling the transition from playing to coaching. Hello, Sam, welcome to the studio, the first time that you've been on Coachcast, how are you? [Sam Griffith:] I'm good thank you very much, how are you?
[00:00:35,100] [Jamie:] Yeah all good thank you. Really good to have you on. Could you start us off by telling us a little bit about your role at the FA?
[00:00:40,320] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah so I'm a coach development officer, part of the women and girls team, cover the East Midlands, and So taking sort of five county FAs, my role is basically try and support, inspire more females into coaching.
[00:00:52,640] [Jamie:] Well, let's hope we can do that with your little arrival activity that we've got set up for you. As this is a coaching podcast, listeners could be on the way to training right now so we think it's a good idea to let them have some great advice at the top of the show.
[00:01:05,880] [Louise:] Yep so we're gonna ask you to give us as many top coaching tips as you can in 30 seconds. Are you up for that? [Sam Griffith:] I'll have a go. [Louise:] Okay we've got some music so when that starts that'll tell you when to begin.
[00:01:19,860] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah I think the biggest thing for me is make sure you enjoy it. I'm a big believer in a coach brings energy. I think if a coach can bring energy to the session and enthusiasm really helps set the tone for the players. I appreciate volunteers don't have a lot of time to plan, but I think if you can have a good understanding of what you're trying to help the players with, that always helps. And just, yeah, just enjoy it. Just be yourself, relax.
[00:01:50,020] [Jamie:] There we go. [Sam Griffith:] That was, that went quick. [Jamie:] It always flies by, but you got a few in there some great little top tips for coaches there. Well let's dive straight in shall we and find out a little bit more about you and we always start off this section by asking what was your first experience of football like? [Sam Griffith:] I'm a little bit older now so I've got to think, I've got to try and think back quite a way. Probably mixed, I was probably grew up playing football in a generation where there clearly wasn't the opportunities that there are today. So I think I probably remember when I was about, probably about four or five, just enjoying having a ball, playing sort of with my dad. And yeah, I just knew every Christmas I got a football kit. I think my first one was Notts County. Don't think I'd really ever heard of them to be honest, so I don't really know where that came from. But yeah, I just knew that I just loved being around a football, but that's probably my first experience really. [Louise:] Did you get a chance to play formal football as well?
[00:02:43,020] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, so I probably didn't start playing in a team until I was about 10 that was a mixed team so I played with boys there was just no girls teams around me at all then I remember my dad coming in one day going I found a girls team this was when I was about 12 to be fair and it's probably about 40 minutes from the house so it still wasn't local but it was an opportunity to actually have a go at kind of playing not that I minded playing with the boys at all and yeah and then I went and played for my first girls team when I was 12 so it's probably quite old kind of going into the system and then I'd only been with them a few months and I got scouted for like I say a local centre of excellence at the time but again that was probably about an hour from me so very quickly I went from playing mixed bit of a kick about to sort of more formal playing in kind of games and playing for the local centre of excellence.
[00:03:28,320] [Jamie:] How did you find that transition from going from informal play, mixed football and then actually into girls football then?
[00:03:34,280] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, it probably happened quite quick to be honest. I'd probably not had much chance of the informal stuff I suppose, other than kind of before I started playing at 10 when it was literally just with my mates. So yeah I think it was more structured. I think you could see a little bit of opportunities for females to play and to play with other... I remember going to my first session going to Dad, God there's other girls that actually like can play as well. So yeah that was probably my first experience and journey of going through that informal to kind of more structured and then that was it then once I was in the structure I was in.
[00:04:07,720] [Louise:] So that's your kind of a bit of an overview of your playing but when did your interest in coaching start and what was your first experience of coaching like?
[00:04:16,079] [Sam Griffith:] Really young actually. I was always sporty at school. I'd always got this kind of urge to lead at school. I always wanted to be a captain and I always wanted to try and sort of instruct and that sort of thing. So I think I knew from very early on that there was a part of me that had some sort of coaching skills attributes whatever you want to call it and it was probably when I got to I think I was 14 and somebody asked me if I wanted to volunteer down the local leisure centre - this was with like an athletics club of literally just they needed somebody to mark how far kids were jumping for this festival and I was like yeah and I went down they absolutely absolutely loved it and that memory really sticks with me in terms it was nothing to do with football but it was my first probably experience of putting kids in a line and shouting go and telling whoever was marking like what the score was and yeah I just got a real buzz from it and I think from that early age I knew that this was a path that I really wanted to go down.
[00:05:09,720] [Jamie:] When did you then get involved with kind of taking a bit more of a leadership and coaching role in football then?
[00:05:15,020] [Sam Griffith:] I'm at 16 so I did the old Junior Team, JTMA was it called? Junior Team Managers Award, well before like what they're called now. So I did that at 16, I then got some casual coaching hours with the local council, actually doing a bit of work kind of in schools, like shadowing, but I got a casual contract with them so that was probably my first experience of actually doing kind of a bit of football on top of obviously I was playing at the time as well so yeah just going into schools and yeah again just doing that instructing and organising. [Louise:] So you mentioned recognising that you had some good coaching skills when you first started. On reflection now, what would you say are good skills or attributes that make a transformational coach?
[00:05:59,440] [Sam Griffith:] I think there's quite a bit to be fair. I think when I look back at my coaching one of the things that was quite clear to me - a couple of things really and probably sit in sort of different parts of the spectrum but I was always quite confident so I was always quite confident and whether that's because I'd played I don't know but I was always confident in my own ability to speak, to deliver. I had that urge to want to help people, whether it be to develop as a player, as a person, develop their skills. I felt like I quite enjoyed seeing people kind of progress. So I suppose in terms of that transformational coaching and then as I got older and probably learned more about what coaching was about certainly making it about the player and I think we'll probably come on to this later but it's probably one of the biggest things that I had to get through making that transition from playing to coaching because playing was very much about me and my ability and what I could do. So making that transition then into a coach, which then it didn't become about me, it became about the player, was a real challenge. [Jamie:] What is it that you enjoy about coaching the most?
[00:07:02,720] [Sam Griffith:] I enjoy seeing players have fun, I enjoy seeing them enjoy what they're doing, I enjoy them enjoying my sessions, what kind of I put on. I'm working at totally different ends of the spectrum from me working in schools with Little Liz right through to obviously my role at Derby now. There's some stuff that kind of runs throughout, irrelevant if it's a five-year-old or a 25 year old that's played for England or played at the highest level or whatever so yeah I just think working with people, just think coaching people that have the same sort of passion and drive and enjoyment around the game, that's probably what I enjoy most about it. [Jamie:] And with your coaching, is there anything that maybe you've taken from inspirational coaches or teachers when you were younger and applied that to your game at all?
[00:07:45,920] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, obviously I grew up with different teachers throughout school. I'm sure we can all reference good ones, bad ones, and I think that's part of your learning when you grow up. I suppose you take the things that you want to take or that you value from having different teachers and I suppose that's what we talk a lot about. That's what makes your coaching, your values and your beliefs as kind of you get as you get older. I've had some really good coaches in my football career. I've had some really bad coaches in my football career, but all those experiences have helped shape the coach that I sort of stand for today. So yeah, like I say, I've had some really good people that have shown me some really good morals and how to shape your values and beliefs. Then I've been on the end of some experience I'd go, I would never want to make somebody feel the way that that made me feel. So yeah, both positive and negative.
[00:08:36,179] [Jamie:] Do you want to elaborate into what values and beliefs that you have as a coach then?
[00:08:40,120] [Sam Griffith:] Yes, I'm like honesty is a massive thing for me. Everything that I do is around being honest Sometimes that is hard so sometimes I'm probably trying to differentiate now between working with young players that are in a developmental phase versus senior players that are in a performance phase. So I certainly think the work that I do with Derby around the performance side of stuff, having some of those honest and open conversations when players come into trial, I'm always one of them that'll go, I don't see like you getting much game time, that's your choice, love to sign but don't see you getting much game time, as opposed to going, I would, we'll just take you and then, so honesty is a big thing for me I think that's something that my parents valued quite a lot growing up So I think when you look back at what's helped shape some of your values and beliefs and things like I think things like Say family and just that honesty is really important. So what else do I value? Like I say, I think one of the most important things for me is putting the players at the heart of it. I'm really passionate around developing people as well as players. It's important for me at Derby that some of those values align. It's important that when we have players come in they understand what I'm about, what sort of I expect, do they fit with that. So yeah I think just around that player at the heart of it and honestly they're probably the two of the core values of what I would say that I stand for as a coach.
[00:10:02,220] [Louise:] Just because you've mentioned it a couple of times there, do you want to tell us about the role that you've got at Derby?
[00:10:07,040] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, so I'm head coach of the women. I played for a number of seasons before I got injured. I sort of had a season out trying to rehab myself and never wanted to quit playing, but my body was at an age where it was probably going you need to stop and then yeah They see at the time of the club sort of approached me and said that you know, I work for the FA I'd already done my license by that point has gone through quite a quick coaching journey away from like why I was playing but obviously with my role at the FA and I was a skills coach and stuff so yeah he says do you want to do it and I suppose I was like yeah I don't want to don't want to come out the game I'd probably accepted that I wasn't going to play again so saw it as a opportunity that I was it was going to have a good go at.
[00:10:48,740] [Jamie:] So you mentioned Derby there and your journey from playing and then adapting into the head coach role. If we just go a little bit before that, can you talk us through your journey from and fill us in on the gaps between when you first started coaching and then to your role at the FA and Derby now?
[00:11:03,260] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, so like I say, my first kind of role coming out of college, so I went to college and studied kind of sports science. I didn't go to uni, I knew that I just wanted to get my hands dirty and I wanted to get straight into some sort of coaching role. So for a good two years I worked as a casual coach for the council, driving here, there and everywhere, but really enjoyed working in the schools. I was then lucky enough to, I was doing a bit of sort of teaching qualification on the side of it, and I was lucky enough to get a role at a college in Nottingham. I was only 19 at the time so I was quite young to be teaching if you like students that were probably only sort of two years younger than me at the time and it was linked in with a coaching role as well so I really enjoyed that and learned a lot about myself a lot about sort of life experiences And then I got my first full-time job in sport, if you like, when I was 21 at the local council as sports development officer. So I learned a lot about, not so much about the coaching, but a lot about writing funding bids and that sort of stuff. So I learnt a different part of the sporting world. However at the time I probably still knew coaching was the route I wanted to go down. So I was at the council, I applied to the local RTC at the time and got a job kind of coaching within there. In fact it might have still been a Centre of Excellence at the time. But yeah, whatever it was, Centre of Excellence RTC. And yeah, so stayed there for probably four or five seasons. Coaching and I coached from the under 12s, I think. I did the 12s and then I did the 17s. That was where I finished. And then from there I got my first role at the FA 14 years ago now, I think I started in 2008 as a FA skills coach for Nottinghamshire. And then I moved across to Derbyshire when they had a new team and sort of led that team. I think I was probably there about seven or eight years. Then I moved on from that into a regional coach mentor role. So the old mentor role worked in the East Midlands. And then from there landed myself from the coach development office jobs for the women and girls game. So worked hugely across like, and like I say, up until probably what, six, seven years ago, I was still playing. So I was playing, I was coaching at the RTC and obviously working like full-time with the FA Then I obviously like say got injured got offered the role at kind of Derby and yeah I've been coaching head coach manager, whatever all these titles are now for the past, this is my fourth season.
[00:13:23,480] [Jamie:] So you mentioned quite a lot of experiences there, how have they shaped you as an individual but also as a coach?
[00:13:28,820] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah massively I think the people that I've been privileged to work with at the FA has been unbelievable. Some of the expertise and the conversations that go off around football come out of a lot of meetings going, oh god I've got something else to think about. And even some of the learning, So my FA learning journey as a coach, you pick things up through each course that you go on, I suppose, working with different players, different people, different staff. I think I like to think about it like as a toolbox, like it was empty, probably when I first started out, it's probably absolutely crammed with stuff now that I suppose you pick and choose like what tools you use to deal with what people or whatever. So yeah, just loads and loads of different experiences, like say of coaching the littlies that are struggling to tie the shoelaces right through to like say players that have played for England and played at the highest level. So yeah, I suppose I've got a bit of a generic skill set.
[00:14:26,940] [Louise:] So can you talk us through how you managed juggling, playing and coaching? How did you manage to split those two?
[00:14:33,160] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, I think at the time it was, I found it useful, sometimes as a positive, sometimes as a negative. So I think at the time I was obviously coaching at a developmental level, so while I was still playing I was coaching in the RTC at kind of under 17s, so they were still obviously in a developmental process of developing players. I think sometimes when you're playing, you're still probably when you stand on the side coaching, you're still playing game through a player's eyes, watching the game through a player's eyes, as probably a coach's eyes. And I was probably still quite young at the time as well. So I think that was probably one of the biggest learning curves that I went through when I was kind of still coaching and playing. But at the same time, I feel like it helped me as a coach playing and having played because I felt like I'd seen and felt some of the pictures that I was probably seeing on the side as well as probably some what some of the the players were experiencing and I think I quite enjoyed trying to share some of my knowledge of when I played in that position or this is the stuff that I did or whatever and just sharing some of those experiences I suppose with the players probably. I'd like to think help develop them.
[00:15:42,440] [Louise:] Did that change when you then retired and it was just coaching that you were doing?
[00:15:46,840] [Sam Griffith:] I think so, yeah. I think mentally it's tough. I did my ACL and loads of other stuff in my knee. So I think if you speak to any female that's kind of played, it's never nice retiring not through choice. So yeah, I probably struggled mentally for a bit to accept that I wasn't I wasn't gonna play again and coaching was gonna be my next kind of step and I suppose there's probably a little bit of frustration in my first season not only did I watch games thinking I'd do it like this I'd do it like that there was probably that little bit of hurt and anger still that I couldn't be on the pitch. So I think that first season for me at Derby was quite tough. I was trying to probably manage myself mentally and letting go of not being like when you put a session on and the players are playing, I don't know, a little game at the end and you're like, you stand there thinking, oh, like, I really miss it. So there was a lot of that going on as well as probably trying to learn loads. I've said before, I think in a second or third game, I'd made three subs by half time and then just really naive because I go, I've got control of taking people off the pitch, putting people on the pitch and then I remember getting a couple of injuries in the second half and I think we finished the game with nine players So that was like a massive learning curve for me and you think God you've you've played all these years But nothing prepares you for for sort of standing standing on that side and somebody then giving you the power to go, well it's down to you now, you're the manager, you make the decisions. So that was a challenge.
[00:17:11,680] [Jamie:] How did you overcome that transition then where being forced to end your playing journey and start your coaching journey and dealing with that mentally?
[00:17:21,579] [Sam Griffith:] I think that the challenges around transitioning from playing to coaching, I've got to be honest, it's probably took up until probably last season to really get my head around what is a head coach's role, what do they actually do, what are they there for, what am I measured against. I'm measured against results, I know that, but in terms of still trying to develop, I still see, even though I'm working at senior level, I still see my role as very much developing like players and people and we've got a really young team this year, completely different to last season so it's another different challenge for me that I'm learning about this year. Probably the first six months in terms of dealing with that not being able to play again, just having really good people around and think it was really important for me to stay connected to the game in some capacity. And I know a lot of people that have ended up retiring through football and then kind of totally fell out of it. And I think there's opportunities now with the push on the female game and female coaches to really try and embrace anybody that does get injured or potentially is coming to the end of retirement. And I very much see that as a big part of my role is how can we get these and keep these people in the game because they're good people with good knowledge. So yeah, I would say that obviously COVID hit, COVID hit like in the middle two, the middle two seasons. So my first season, I had a full season, then both the seasons after that got cut short with COVID. So this has probably only been my second real full season. So yeah, that probably didn't help with the stop start and everything. [Louise:] Do you think it was a case of almost finding an identity as a coach as opposed to a player?
[00:18:55,660] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, definitely. I think understanding your identity as a coach is so important. My challenge was probably that I'd very much worked in the developmental phase and with youngsters up until that point, yeah done a little bit of work like say at the RTC with the 17s but pretty much my full-time job like I say was with the skills program and then obviously the mentor role so everything predominantly my work was with sort of the 5 to 11 year olds and then all of a sudden somebody puts 25 adult senior players in front of you I think that's a challenge to kind of get your head around and I think at the time as well I'd obviously played with some of these players so a lot of them were my mates. I was now kind of going a step up above them. [Louise:] Did that help that they were your friends? Probably yeah because I'd like to think I had good relationships with them. I think I've got two left at the minute that I played with sort of seven, eight years ago and I was still playing that still playing now for me, but I was captain. So I captained like the club for a number of years. So I probably had a little bit of that respect, that two way respect before I kind of took that role anyway. But yeah, that was another challenge of making that transition that if then you've got a quickly snap out of laughing joking messing around at training probably to all of a sudden go in and you know what the biggest thing for me that when I look Back on it. I go. I must have been an absolute nightmare to manage I do feel for some of the coaches and the managers that had me because I was probably quite an opinionated player and that probably comes from coaching on the side. I'd probably done my A licence, well I had finished my A licence while I was still playing, so I'd already formed an opinion of how I wanted the team to play as a player. So yeah, looking back now, I would not have liked to have managed me. And I'm going through some of them experiences now of coaching players thinking you were just like me. And yeah, so yeah, just just loads of different stuff, I suppose, that is that helps you reflect and go that wasn't right that was right but I'm a massive believer in that's what shapes you as a person and it's good to make those mistakes and I think as long as you can be reflective and look back on stuff and that helps kind of you develop as a person and as a coach. [Louise:] How did you actually do that? Was it like, did you write things down? Did you speak to other people and get their opinions on it?
[00:21:08,680] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me, I'm not a massive writer. I think speaking to people, I think being prepared to have like, open and honest conversations, welcoming feedback, I think is really important. I think you have to be brave to do it, I think it is part of you that has to be prepared to be a little bit, don't agree with that or oh that shocked me. And I remember when I got the regional coach mentor job, we did a PG cert in sports coaching. I'd never been to uni. I like, it's no lie that I hated the whole course. It just wasn't for me in terms of learning. But what I learned from it was probably some real valuable life lessons. So I did one of my pieces on kind of understanding self. And at the time, I think I was still playing, I think, I just got the role as a mentor and I did something around the Johari window, if you know about a Johari window, but it's basically like a self-reflection tool and you have an opportunity to send it out to people, you know, so I sent it out to sort of family members, players that I was playing with at the time, coaches, staff that I was working with, and they basically send, basically generates words that kind of get sent back to you and there's like sort of four sort of windows that you know yourself, what other people see, what you see, what other people don't see and etc etc and it was probably the best task that I've done. At the time it was hard because some of the words that came back in terms of nothing bad so you can't write no bad words on it but it was very much around confident enthusiastic knowledgeable and bearing in mind I just got into a regional mentor role and some of the words you could pick from were like caring empathetic nice none of those words came back So it was a real sort of punch between the eyes for me going, I'm gonna go into this role. And this probably filtered into like some of the coaching stuff as well going, I've got to try and expose myself a little bit more around some of these areas because obviously to be a good coach you've got to be caring, you've got and I probably thought at the time I was but everything that came back was going you're great at your job, you're knowledgeable, you're prompt, you get the best out of us but actually this is the bit that's missing. And yeah, that was probably one of the best things that I've done that really made me think, yeah, I've got to expose myself a little bit here and let some of the guards down if I'm gonna be successful in this role as a head coach. [Jamie::] That's really fascinating because that's quite a vulnerable position to be in, in terms of getting that feedback, but being open to getting feedback has changed your views of coaching perhaps and the way that you do things?
[00:23:40,840] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, definitely. Like I say, I was probably a little bit shocked at the start and like I say, going into a new role like mentoring, where it is all about like building rapport and that relationship piece and everything. And it was really important for me to understand the value of some of those attributes because probably at the time when I was just starting like making that transition into into coaching with a responsibility I suppose for me it was very much around I've got to show these players I know what I'm doing I've got to show these players that I'm in charge I've got to show these players and probably forgot some of the most important skills as a coach.
[00:24:17,520] [Sam Griffith:] I can see that it's kind of as a player you perhaps don't realise that there's that side of it. No and that's probably where my playing career had such an influence on the start of my coaching journey because I was still very much, I just wanted to be the best on the pitch as a player I would do anything to win it was always about the result so I think understanding that actually there's more to this now as a coach you might have to park some of that stuff and I know my first season I was still running up and down the sides and kicking every ball, I'd say heading every ball but I wasn't the best header in the game so, but yeah I was literally this passionate coach on the side and it's probably took me probably until this season really, because like I say the last two seasons were finished early to kind of go, that's probably not what you need to be now Sam. You need to just find some other traits that, there's different ways that you can show players that you care and that you're there and you're with them there on a Sunday, as opposed to shouting, screaming, racing up and down the sidelines. But it's took a while, it has took a while to get to that point, especially like say with with the player inside me.
[00:25:27,840] [Jamie:] What would be any advice that you could give our listeners to help them find their coaching approach based on the journey that you've gone through?
[00:25:34,820] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, I think it's probably, I don't know if it's easier or harder if you've played or you've not played. Probably, I think if you've probably not played you've got an opportunity earlier to probably shape yourself as a coach because you don't probably have that player head on if you like that that's probably what I experienced it was quite hard for me to take that player head off and and put a coaching head on so I think people that probably haven't played have probably got a bit more of a blank canvas to kind of go off and really understand what their kind of values are and what they value and they've probably not been through some of the influences of having good coaches, bad coaches and I think for anyone that's been through going through the same journey as me that have taken them, I'm saying taking the boots off but you've still got your boots on on the side. But yeah, coming out of playing into coaching is just, I suppose, just take your time with it. I don't think there's any right or wrong. And like I say, I think the biggest thing for me is being prepared to be vulnerable, admitting sometimes that you're struggling or admitting actually just because I've played, it doesn't necessarily mean that I've got all the answers, absolutely not. Creating a good team around you I think is really important and that goes back to grassroots even as a mum, dad that you feel like you're on your own. There'll be good parents, there'll be good people that will be around your club that you can tap into. So yeah I just think being prepared to have them open and honest conversations and always welcoming feedback whether it's from players, from parents, from other coaches and that's the bit about being vulnerable for me.
[00:27:00,220] [Jamie:] With the role of the coach you're taking up responsibility of being in charge of a group of players and I know you was the captain as well so you had that leadership and it's something that you've always enjoyed but how did you then deal with that aspect of it and what are your top tips for managing people? [Sam Griffith:] I think the first thing is you have to be approachable. We talk a lot about it at work and especially in the mentoring world that I sort of sat in for a big part of time, building that rapport, having a good understanding of who you're working with, kind of, I suppose, what motivates them, what are they there for. And again, I suppose it doesn't matter if it's with the five, six, seven year olds that might be at a grassroots club up until senior players, like, what are they there for? So some of the youngsters are probably just there just to play with the friends, how much they wanna get better or wanna learn about football might be totally different to like some of the others. So I think it's around knowing and understanding your players and having like say a real clear understanding of kind of what they want and what they need. And I suppose the challenge as coaches, how do you adapt to that? How do you manage difference within the group? How do you manage people individually? And that's probably one of the biggest challenges I found in my time at Derby was managing people. Never really had people cry at me because they weren't starting or that's another learning curve I had to kind of get my head around pretty quick and I think the important thing was that was just having the right team around you so just because you're the head coach or the main coach doesn't mean you're the best person to kind of deal with everything and again just bringing that right back to grassroots if sometimes it might be a different parent that might be better to deal with that child that's, I don't know, bumped the knee or something as opposed to you've got to deal with everything. So yeah I think I suppose for me in terms of managing people is knowing and understanding them, making sure like you've got the rapport, you've got a relationship and that probably links into my biggest value around honesty. I think once you've got that you can then start to have open and honest conversations because you've got that you've got the relationship to have that.
[00:29:04,020] [Louise:] Do you have any advice for players who also coach or maybe have retired and just started coaching? Do you have any advice for them on planning sessions?
[00:29:15,180] [Sam Griffith:] Planning sessions I think going back to basics is knowing and understanding what you want to get out from the session I suppose so we talk a lot around the i2cf and stuff around just kind of going with a topic and Not trying to do too much not trying to over coach. Don't try and coach everything you see, so whatever it might be, plan your session around that, try and get it to link. So if you've got the kids for an hour or players for an hour or two hours, like what's the theme that can run throughout, we'll usually have some sort of game at the end I think that's typical especially in the grassroots world but how can you link that back to to the learning to your objective? Understand that I think it's a challenge at grassroots for us to expect reams and reams of planning and paperwork and stuff So I think as long as they've got a clear learning focus, I suppose, for the players, what they want and to help them get better with. And I suppose at the other end, playing to coaching, it's just trying really hard to take that player head off because there'll be sessions that you've been in that you will have a bias towards because you enjoyed that. I probably went through that a little bit at the start. My go-to sessions were the sessions that I did as a player, forgetting that not everybody will have enjoyed the same sessions that I did. So again, I suppose it's that challenge of not making it about you. You have a different role now in educating, developing a team, a team of individuals. So yeah, probably just having that focus of what you want out of the session, what you're trying to help the players get better at and kind of work backwards from there I suppose.
[00:30:46,280] [Jamie:] What other top tips do you have for those who have recently finished playing at any level and now looking to go into coaching?
[00:30:52,080] [Sam Griffith:] Just embrace it I would go if you've got an opportunity to stay in the game absolutely. It'll give you back different things from from playing. I think there'll be challenges that people will go through, like I say, in terms of going through that play into coaching. But it's something that I've certainly never looked back on. And yeah, I just think if you've enjoyed playing the game, in my opinion, you've got a lot of the tools already. So I think people come into coaching at different levels with a different skill set. I think anyone that's played the game will come very much in with that tactical, technical kind of awareness of thinking about the four corner type stuff. I suppose the challenge for me is then how are you going to develop yourself as a coach? So some of the softer skills that we spoke about, how are you going to work on them, challenge yourself on them and probably educate yourself on them, like how far you're prepared to go in terms of your own coach education journey.
[00:31:47,280] [Louise:] From Talking about those softer skills and kind of I suppose communication is one of those. Have you found or have you developed any tips that you could share that would perhaps help someone kind of develop their communication a bit better?
[00:32:01,100] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways to look at it I suppose. I've got a group, me personally I've got at senior level I've got a group of very very different individuals that need communicating to very differently and what I mean by that is Some probably need an arm and a bit of a sit down, might need some stuff visually in terms of what we're seeing, what we're trying to do. Others probably just need a stern word, if you want to say that. But I have that relationship with them that I've probably got to that point now where I kind of know what they need. So I suppose again, that comes back to that, having that rapport, having the relationship and kind of knowing and understanding your players and just around like the communication of just the open and honesty bit. Do they value that? And just understanding there's probably different ways to communicate. Like say, I was probably that person on the side that would scream and shout and run up and down. And I think it's understanding and appreciating that there's different ways to get your kind of get your message across. I know I was listening to something a few weeks ago around players valuing somebody with sort of energy and shouting and passion. And it was probably kind of thrown back at them going, but you see some of the tops, if you look at Serena, probably very rarely left the dugout. So we sort of saying that she didn't care or like, and I suppose it's that again, she knows what her players obviously need, that doesn't mean that she doesn't care or anything like that, she just has a different way of communicating kind of her messages. And just understanding how the players receive some of those messages I think is important as well.
[00:33:35,440] [Jamie:] Do you have any top tips for maybe finding that information out about players so that you know how to communicate with them and build? [Sam Griffith:] Yeah I just think again it comes down to like just conversations like I think if you look at training, whether you have an hour, two hours, four hours, however long you train throughout the week, even if it's with the littlest, I think those one-to-one conversations, I think the longer you spend with players, the more you get to know about them and the way they work and vice versa. But I think just sometimes, again, having that open, honest conversation going, if this was to happen, what do you need? Especially senior players, I think they'll go, I need it like this or whatever. Even things like with the littlers, we used to do it years ago where they used to do like little questionnaires and you can make it as fun as you want in terms of what they need and and kind of what they want and like they go like it's their game so let them play. I was around quite a bit of the Silent Weekend the other week and some of the feedback from the players was it's the most enjoyable game that they've had for a long time so that probably tells you quite a lot around what kids enjoy. A lot of them probably miss the praise quite a bit, they probably miss the mums and dads clapping and saying doing well, but I think from a coach's point of view, there's a real big message there of what certainly kids value. [Louise:] Can you just explain for anybody who didn't know what the silent weekend was? [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, basically everyone just had to be quiet. I think it was a lot of claps that were allowed. But yeah, in terms of coaches shouting instructions and shouting good stuff, bad stuff, whatever it might have been, it was, yeah, applaud, applaud only. So the players were very much left to their own devices to make their own mistakes, to make their own decisions, their own choices. But yeah, some of the games I witnessed and some of the players I spoke to post it was, yeah, they really enjoyed, yeah, just let me play mum and dad. Yeah,
[00:35:27,980] [Jamie:] That goes to sort of the top end of the game as well, and maybe that you've experienced at Derby in terms of like, trying to get key messages on or constantly trying to talk and players might not be able to hear especially if either on the other side of the pitch or of course with the atmosphere around the grounds as well that yes sometimes it is just getting a few key messages across maybe at the start of the game and then just just letting them play perhaps?
[00:35:49,640] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah look I'm going through a bit of a learning curve with that myself at the minute where like I say we've got a very different group this year from what we had last year we had a lot of sort of senior pros last year that played at the highest level that probably knew the game inside out this year. We've got a lot of youngsters that need a lot of help at the minute and it's probably been apparent in the last, well, couple of games that we've played in big stadiums. We played at the Hawthorns at West Brom, we played at the City Ground at Forest. Yeah, the players that played in front of me, had really good games while they were playing in front of me, the minute they go over the other side and you can't get those messages on, probably struggle with some of those decisions. I think we've decided to sit down as a group of coaches and go, we have to give these players more responsibility. How do we still educate, help, support, develop these players without kind of talking them through the game. So yeah, so we're looking at different things at the minute as to how we challenge the players and put them in scenarios of being able to have a go at stuff without us going, instructing kind of from the side. Which again is tough because as a coach when results do matter, I think anybody that works probably maybe even tier four to be fair and above, there's always the chance that you've got people above you going, actually you've not got the results. So I think that the women's games, obviously showing that at the minute, the amount of people that are kind of getting let go from the roles and stuff. So it's around managing yourself and I think that comes back to your values as a coach as what are you prepared to bend and flex on in terms of supporting these players to make decisions without screaming and shouting and talking them through the whole game. [Jamie:] Just to wrap this little bit of a section up before we go into the community chat. How do you balance that sort of the need to win but also the desire to develop your players? You mentioned that you've got quite a young squad in particular this year, how do you manage that balance?
[00:37:36,580] [Sam Griffith:] It's hard and I don't think anybody will ever take winning out of anybody even at grassroots, like I don't believe there's any five, six, eight, ten, twelve year old that goes on the pitch going, I don't want to win. Like I genuinely believe they do. I think there's certain behaviors that yourself as a coach, you have to be able to draw a line and go, that's not acceptable for me to go over those boundaries. But Yeah, I just think it's, you learn as a coach how to manage emotion. You learn as a coach how to stand on the side and portray yourself in the best possible light. That's really important for me. I'm a big believer in you reflect the players, the players reflect you. I think if you want to scream, shout, run up and down, shout, the referee, that's what the players will naturally learn, that that's what we do. So for me, I see myself as having a bigger role than just getting as many points on the board for the team. I have to show what I expect from the players and how they behave, how they react to certain situations. And yeah, emotions are always probably going to get involved at some point, but like I say, I think the longer you're in these roles, the easier it is to understand how to manage yourself.
[00:38:47,220] [Louise:] Brilliant, thanks. Some really interesting things to think about there. So as Jamie mentioned before, we're now moving on to our community chat feature, which is basically, we take some of the questions that people have asked on our England football community and we'll put them to you. So we've kind of spoke of about parents a little bit already but we know that it can be challenging especially if you're a new coach to deal with parents and it is a big topic of conversation on the community. So to help with a few questions on there, what advice would you give to a coach to help them deal with critical parents on the sidelines? And does the way that you approach them vary depending on the age group that you're coaching?
[00:39:30,040] [Sam Griffith:] I'm a big believer that if you can embrace parents, see them as a positive, not a negative, it makes your life so much easier. I think for new coaches stepping onto the grass, and let's be honest, I think at the younger age groups, it's very much usually a mom, dad that potentially don't want to do it, but unless you do it, your son or daughter's team's not going to run. So I think it's very new to them. I think we need to do more in getting the messages out there that you have got a support mechanism around you with parents and ways to embrace them. So things like on that first night that you get your brand new bag of balls and your cones, like invite the parents in, if you've got a clubhouse or even if it's just a five-minute chat before in terms of again probably being that exposed a little bit, I am new, I have just done my whatever it might be coaching qualification and just inviting parents at that point to come on board and understand again this is what I'm about, this is what we want in the kids to try and achieve this year and I think the more you can embrace them and talk to them as opposed to probably what we do a little bit where I'm the coach I'm here you all go and stand behind that that barrier I think straight away that becomes a barrier of well we're the parents and you're the coach Whereas I think if you can try and bring the two together, I think it makes coaches' life so much easier. I know historically there's some clubs I've worked with that have a parents' kind of workshop every couple of months where they just invite the parents in, the coaches in, and they just chat. They just chat around what they're trying to do, what the club's trying to do, whatever it might be. I know there's some clubs that have tried your half-time team talk, actually inviting the parents to be in a kind of vicinity where they can hear what the coach is kind of telling the kids, So I suppose you don't get those mixed messages I think there's other clubs that have give the parents tasks to do on the side during games whether it be marking their own child of like the number of passes or the number of dribbles or whatever just to probably try and take their focus a little bit off the actual emotion of the game, because that's probably what they struggle with quite a lot. And yeah, I just think setting those expectations at the start of the season that parents then sign up to. So I think you've always got that to refer back to, to go, but at the start of the season we said it would be this for playing time or it would be this that I'd be playing these players or whatever it might be but the parents have actually signed up to go yeah I'm happy I'll sign my son daughter at this club and yeah just probably some little ways of embracing the parents as opposed to seeing them as a yeah go and stand over there.
[00:42:01,760] [Louise:] Just thinking, so say if you've done all that and someone is still being a bit critical and stuff, is there a way that you could kind of try and get them on side a bit better?
[00:42:11,380] [Sam Griffith:] Again I think it's probably a theme that's run throughout this whole chat around having that rapport, so I suppose if the coach can build that rapport with the parents and understand the parents and understand what's causing the parent to have that conflict with you or that opinion is it just a lack of understanding is it historically something that he's done that he might just not agree with or whatever. So I think it comes back to having that rapport to be able to have that open again, that open and honest conversation to try and I suppose discuss it and sort it out. And then I suppose in my opinion, rightly or wrongly, there has to be that point that if it's not right, then it's probably not the right place to be at our club. If what I'm doing isn't good enough or you don't agree with, then I'm sure there's plenty of other clubs that they could go to. I'm not sure that helps a kid if they enjoy it and stuff so I think our first priority like say is to try and sort it with the parent whatever that might be but I am a big believer there has to be a point if people aren't happy that someone has to remove themselves.
[00:43:12,260] [Jamie:] Brilliant, well we are coming to the end of the show Sam But our regular listeners will know that means it is time for a swift session.
[00:43:19,640] [Louise:] Yeah, it's another challenge. So this one is we give you 30 seconds to try and explain to us a session idea. Does that sound... Looking on your face, it's looking like it's a challenge. It's only 30 seconds, so as you found out before it goes quite quickly, but if you're happy to go with that, go with that. Yep, brilliant. Okay, I'll set the timer up and if you're ready, time starts now. [Sam Griffith:] Yeah I'm gonna go with what we talked about quite a lot the minute, small-sided games but trying to incorporate different targets so whether it be 3v3 4v4 with like goals to start with then maybe you might change that to target players at either end, then you might change that to an end zone or an end line, and you'll get very different returns from a small sided game that one will finish with actual goals of shooting, one will finish with passing into the target player, one will probably finish with dribbling over the end zone. So yeah, a really simple small-sided game with different outcomes. [Jamie:] Brilliant, thanks for that Sam. Well, thank you very much for your time today, appreciate you coming into the studio to chat to us and we really value your honesty and open conversation. It was really fascinating insight so thank you very much. Hopefully you've enjoyed it as well.
[00:44:37,200] [Sam Griffith:] Yeah, no thank you for having me.
[00:44:38,100] [Jamie:] Well that was a really great chat with Sam there and it was really fascinating to get insight into that journey from going from playing to coaching. Louise, what would be the key point that you'd highlight from today's episode?
[00:44:51,280] [Louise:] I really liked when she said about, you reflect your players and your players reflect you. So that's kind of a way to think about your behavior, your reactions and communication, I guess. So I think it's a really good thing to just keep in mind when you're coaching.
[00:45:05,900] [Jamie:] Yeah I think that's a really good point. For me there was a couple of things, there was that kind of taking your playing hat off and doing what's best for them rather than maybe what was best for yourself so getting to know players and therefore what they need but also and Sam identified herself which was that we talked a lot about honesty throughout that episode so for me a key point was was honesty both with communication but also being honest with yourself when welcoming feedback and being open to that feedback and yeah it's being prepared to be a bit vulnerable but it's being honest with yourself in that reflection period I think was a really good point. Right well that's all we have time for today but don't forget to check out the episode description for all the links to our platforms. There you'll be able to click through to the England Football Community. This is where you can post your questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.