[Jamie]
Hello and welcome to CoachCast by England Football Learning, the coaching podcast that brings you insight from people across the game. Today we're chatting to Ellie Marshall, a young coach who's at the start of her journey to discover her experiences so far and gain advice for new coaches and those looking to get involved.
[Louise]
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of CoachCast. As Jamie just mentioned there, we've got Ellie with us today. So hi Ellie, how are you?
[Ellie]
Hello, I'm good, thank you.
[Louise]
Good, lovely to have you on. So as a start, why don't we just find out a little bit about what your role in coaching is, like who you coach and how long you've been doing it?
[Ellie]
So I started when I was 16. I was doing a college course at Eastwood and they put me through their Wildcat sessions, their evening sessions, which got me into my coaching role and they put me through my level one. Then after doing that, I got a job at Derby County Community Trust as an apprentice. So working in schools, working with different age groups, sort of like a PE teacher role, but there's still the coaching side of it. And then currently took on another Sevens team at Eastwood last season, starting my own journey with having a team myself. And then coming up in the next couple of weeks, I'm starting my level two to widen my knowledge of sport and football.
[Jamie]
Sure, you'll be able to get plenty of tips for coaches in a similar position to yourself today then. And speaking of that, as this is a coaching podcast, listeners right now could be on the way to training. So we think it's a good idea if we could give them a little bit of insight straight away.
[Louise]
So we'll call this your arrival activity. So what we'll do is we'll give you 30 seconds. And if you can tell us as many top coaching tips as you can in those 30 seconds. Does that sound okay?
[Ellie]
Yeah, sounds good. Yeah.
[Louise]
Okay, when the music starts, that's when you can begin. Here we go.
[Ellie]
I'll always have a session plan prepared or know sort of what I'm going into the session doing. If you've got other coaches or other age groups there, maybe pick other people's brains, help each other with tips and pointers, support and understand your players, because you'll have different abilities, different people that pick up different things, set goals for individuals for the season or for that training session, develop good relationships, good warm up.
[Louise]
Fantastic. We've got loads in there. Right, well, fantastic. We'll move on to the main feature, which is to find out a little bit more about Ellie and to share a little bit of insight with our listeners. So first we'll start off, what was your first experience of football like?
[Ellie]
I started playing football through school. But when I was at school, female football or girls football wasn't really as big as public was now. So I was playing with the lads teams, I was going out playing with lads and as I got older, found out it was more for girls. And then since I was 11, I've played football ever since, played at Derby till I was 16, 17, then moved from Derby to play for Mansfield. So as I got older, there's been more things out there for girls to go and join and things like that. But I think it can still be pushed a little bit more for definite.
[Jamie]
Did you have an informal play? What did that look like then if school didn't necessarily offer too much football opportunities?
[Ellie]
At the time they didn't. We did try to put on a girls session, but not many girls at the time turned up. So for me, it was sort of play with the lads when I can and see what comes of it really.
[Jamie]
So you're playing now still, is that right?
[Ellie]
Yes, that's correct. Yeah.
[Jamie]
So do you want to take us back to basically when you first started mixing coaching and playing then?
[Ellie]
Probably when I was 16. Obviously, I was playing at the time and then alongside playing, Eastwood gave me the opportunity to help them out coaching-wise and they had a Wildcat skills session, which was something that I really wanted to get involved with being a female. But I'd say the last couple of years is where I've grown as a coach, I've took more responsibility and worked on my own, which has been nice.
[Jamie]
For the listeners that may be unaware, do you want to explain what the Wildcat sessions are?
[Ellie]
So Wildcat sessions are girls-only sessions. I believe is it 4 to 11 for girls that are just starting out football or some that are in teams already that like to come to just the girls-only session. So it's mainly that.
[Jamie]
How did you find that experience then jumping into Wildcats? I loved it. That was my first starting point. So to do a Wildcat session and being a girls-only session for me, that was enjoyable. Knowing that there is girls out there that want to play football and want to be wrestling, showing that they can do it and it's not just a male sport. A lot of them took to you well, being a female coach, which was really nice, which gives them a confidence sometimes in having a female role model.
[Jamie]
With players, primary age players then, with the Wildcat sessions, a lot of it could be the first experiences that they've had in Wildcats. So how important was it to get the environment right to just make sure that they was having fun and that they kept wanting to return?
[Ellie]
Yeah, so just making the sessions fun, but still related to football. As long as they went off my pitch happy and learning things related to football, that's all I can ask from my sessions. And if they come back and they keep coming back, that's where you sort of start to progress and test them a little bit and start progressing them. How do you try to inject that fun into your sessions? Is it the way that you speak to them or is it the type of games that you play? I think it could be both. Sometimes how you speak to people, sometimes the games. Some people are more visual, so if you can interlink that with your games then definitely. Or some people might like you talking to them and having a bit of a fun. Sometimes it could just be a little rock, paper, scissors game with you as a coach and a child and seeing who wins. So it's just the little things that they probably take more out of your session.
[Jamie]
So what came after Wildcats then?
[Ellie]
After Wildcats I started Eastwoods Performance Centre with the boys. Then I went into schools coaching with different age groups and then went back to more base football and having my own team to work with rather than different individuals. I've got that one set team.
[Jamie]
How did you find working that first instance then going from Wildcats sessions to Eastwood boys? Were there many differences? They were the same age but were there many differences between coaching the girls and the boys at all?
[Ellie]
I think more people. More people at your sessions which sort of helped your sessions a little bit. Numbers mainly is the main one that I've worked with.
[Jamie]
So do you want to tell us a little bit about then joining up with the Derby County Community Trust and you mentioned just before the call a bit about your role there.
[Ellie]
Yeah, so when I left college I really wanted to get into personal training, did the course for that and then at the time an old coach that used to work with me at Derby had sent me over an apprenticeship role for Derby County Community Trust. So I thought take the interview, go for it, see what comes of it and I got the role and that was going into schools as a community coach. So sort of doing PE lessons with different sports, coaching different age groups, things like that and we've got our talent ID program which is just footballs in the evening. So I've got a wide range of different sports and different age groups that I've worked with over the last three and a half years since I've been there.
[Jamie]
And have you used, so you've gone straight in there in terms of like similar age players but then you mentioned they're going in with different sports. How did you find that? And did you find that actually when you went back to coaching football that you could potentially take some of the things from other sports into your sessions at all?
[Ellie]
Yeah, so when I found out that it was going to be different sports, obviously people have their preferred sports and with school and college having some knowledge about other sports I already had but I've gone more into depth about teaching over a period of time, different sports. But going back into football, I've took the more teacher-based role out of my sessions into my football sessions. So having that balance of yeah, I can be a fun coach but I can also have my boundaries of right, I've got to teach you this and this is what you're going to take from your sessions. So I've learned a lot from going into schools delivering different sports but linking it with my football sessions and my own football in a sense.
[Louise]
Because you've worked with a lot of primary age kits, do you have any top tips for working with that age group?
[Ellie]
I think enjoy it, make it fun for them but still have something that you're going to get out of the session. Have that connection with them. You can strip things back to basics if people are struggling. I've learned that a lot. Just enjoy it and have that bond with them.
[Louise]
How do you try and structure your sessions then for that kind of age group?
[Ellie]
So I sort of stick to a, I do a fun arrival activity into my warm-up. Then I'll work on my main session. So what I want to get out of a session. So for example, if it's a passing session that's what I'll focus on and then I'll finish with a fun game or a match to end with. So it sort of flowed through my session. We've still got the pointers of what I want to get out of the session. They still had their fun and their game time at the end of it.
[Jamie]
Especially with that age group, I can imagine there's a lot of parents and carers guardians around. Do you have any top tips for people kind of like including parents or just dealing with parents at all?
[Ellie]
I like to include parents as best you can with the age they are and obviously they've got to have some sort of input as they bring their child to training. But I see it as when we're on the pitch, it's my time with them. If there's a problem, we'll deal with it at the end or we'll have a chat. But all my parents that I deal with are absolutely fantastic. They let you do your job, they come off, they say to you that they've enjoyed it or they say, oh, what can you go and work on? It's nice to have them involved, especially at that young age. I think when you start to get a little bit older, that's where things might start to change and the rules start to change and things like that. But I think for the age group I work with, it's definitely good to have parents involved as much as the kids really. So I have that good rapport with not only their kids, but them as parents as well.
[Louise]
What do you think it is that makes you enjoy coaching so much?
[Ellie]
I think working with different children, hearing different stories. It's something that I've always loved to do. So I'd like to show that to other kids that I've enjoyed it. I've got to where I am today with hard work and listening to coaches and teachers. So it's definitely a good thing to go down.
[Jamie]
And do you think they relate to you quite a lot because you're a little bit younger maybe as well? Yeah, I think a lot do. And sometimes they like that younger head, but a lot of kids like the older head. But it depends how kids take to you and how you are as a parent.
Jamie]
Now you're quite early on into your coaching journey, but do you have a picture in mind of what coaching values are really important to you at all? I think respect, a big one. If I have respect for that child, I sort of expect it back, which a lot of them do. I think good communication. I think a lot of kids aren't as good at communicating. So I like to communicate with them, chat to them, even if it's not about sport and it's something they're really interested in. I think good communication and rapport with your children is really key.
[Jamie]
Would you say that you're quite committed and quite driven? as a coach in any show, do you think that that's important? Yeah, since being a kid, I've always wanted to be a coach. I've always been driven in what I've done, whether it's to do with sport or anything else. And I think if you show that as a person, kids will start to take that from you and they sort of mirror what you do. I think if you've got good attributes that you share when you're coaching, that kids sort of follow that as well. So if they can take on what you sort of do or how you communicate or how you are as a person, they sort of take things from that.
[Jamie]
So it's almost being like a role model for them at such an important age, isn't it?
[Ellie]
Yeah, definitely. If you can be a role model for somebody whether it's as young as what I deal with or older, I think a good role model is key.
[Louise] Do you find that part of your role as a coach is to kind of improve some of your players' confidence and how do you go about that? Yeah, definitely. Confidence is a big thing and I've learnt that from being a kid to now. So it's mainly letting them enjoy it, working on things that they're good at, also pushing something that they might not be good at, but working with that so their confidence grows over time. But I think confidence is a big thing for anybody, especially kids that are doing sport. So if you can manage that, I think it's a really good sign.
[Jamie]
This might lead into a little bit of the value stuff as well, but what do you feel makes a good coach in that site, whether at this young age with the primary age kids or whether it is for yourself playing as well in an older age group, what do you think it is that makes a good coach?
How you are as a person. If you come into a session really down, obviously it's going to take that mood with the kids. So you've got to be enthusiastic, you've got to be confident, you've got to know what you're wanting out of that session. You've got to do all these things for the kids to get a good rapport from you. And if you get a good rapport, things in your sessions will go well.
[Louise]
Was there anything that you, like when you were being coached as a player, where you've thought that I want to replicate that?
[Ellie]
I think sessions that I've seen that I think, I could take that away, but change it. So sessions how people are with others, how they might speak to individuals. So if some coaches might just stand there and chat to you, whereas some will come involved in the session and start changing things. I'm one of those type of coaches to get involved with the kids, which is something that I've took from other coaches that have coached me.
[Jamie]
Have you faced any challenges at all? And if so, how have you overcome them?
[Ellie]
Challenges have been sort of in schools. When I first started Dalby County, I went, I paired up with a lot of coaches and they were all males. I was the only female at the time. So they took to the male coach better with how he projected his voice, how he was. They listened a little bit more. Whereas when I first started out, I was quite quiet, quite shy, which come across the kids as we can talk over, we can do this. That was the first sort of challenge for me when I first started out in my coaching in schools.
[Louise]
And how did you actually go about approaching some of those challenges?
[Ellie]
Going into the sessions, projecting my voice a little bit more, seeing how kids reacted to that, learning off of the coaches. So going out with different coaches, I learned different things. A lot of the coaches, they did their part, I did my part. And after the part that I did, they gave me feedback of what I could do to improve and then experience over time. I think the more I did it, the more I got confident and used to it. And then that's where I've grown as a person from the start to where I am now. So I think working with others and experiences is really key.
[Jamie]
Been talking to a few coaches about people from their past like memorable teachers or coaches that they can think of. Automatically, they had a smile on the face of when they was remembering. Do you have anything like that from your time at school or time playing where you remember a coach fondly? And if so, what would it be that you'd like kids to remember from your sessions?
[Ellie]
When I was at school, I wasn't the most academic. I learned differently in different ways. So I always give the option to kids that if you should want to learn this way, there is an alternative. Whereas some people will shut it down and if they don't get it there and then, then that'll be it. Then they'll just sort of let them go into it. Whereas I struggled a lot through school. So I found different ways to learn, which I'd like to share with other kids if they're struggling or if they're at a point that they're sort of stopped, that I can break down that barrier and go, no, there's this way. It might not be the same as that your other teammate, but there's a different way for you. So that's what school teachers taught me. I think when at my other football, I had a male coach and he was absolutely fantastic. He was sort of what we'd say a football dad, even though he was our coach, he'd be there. He'd take you under the wing if you struggling or he was upset. And I thought he had a good balance with that. So I've took a lot from that.
[Louise]
That's really nice to hear. And I think, yeah, it's a really good position to put yourself in like giving children an opportunity to kind of feel included and understand that they can learn in a different way and there's lots of different ways to learn. So that's brilliant.
[Jamie]
Yeah, I think it was quite nice hearing that thinking. There are other ways to learn and everybody's different. That suggests that you believe that understanding individual players is really important to coaching. Yeah, it's very key. I think there might be certain individuals that have not got it from that first time explanation or that first time demonstration that you might have to go back and strip it back to the start. So I think knowing your players, knowing who you're working with, different personalities, I think you've got a nail in every environment.
[Jamie]
And how would you go about, so say if you noticed that one of the group weren't quite getting it from the first time, how would you go about explaining it to them again? Would you do it in front of a full group or would you kind of pull them to one side or do it while they're playing or?
[Ellie]
I've done it both ways. I've done it where I've done it in front of the group, but the groups helped that individual out and they've done it together. And I've also took a player out of the situation, had a chat with them, sort of done it on a me and that player situation and then dropped him back into the session. So I've done both sides and I've seen both sides to that.
[Jamie]
What are your aspirations moving forward in coaching Ellie?
[Ellie] I think with me starting my level two in a couple of weeks, I think that's going to help me massively as an individual and as a coach. And I think just making people enjoy it, making others get involved with sport. My main one is female football. I think that's the main one to get involved in, try and get as many girls involved and as much experience in the women's game as possible. And especially with how things are going, how they're playing at the minute, I think that's going to be key. And I hope they can take not only that with football teams, but into schools having girls' PE based sessions with football. I think that's my aspiration to get a lot more girls involved.
[Louise]
That's wonderful to hear. What would your advice be for new coaches looking to get involved and particularly younger people?
[Ellie]
I think go into it open-minded, enjoy it as much as you teaching them kids and letting the kids enjoy it. You've got to enjoy it yourself. I think that's a key one and definitely keep going at it.
[Louise]
Perfect. That was some really good advice there. Maybe you can also help us out with some other bits of advice for our community chat feature. So we've got an England football community platform where lots of coaches go on there and they often ask questions and it's usually like challenges that they're struggling with in coaching. So we thought we'd put one of those questions to you.
We've recently had a question where someone was asking how to stop players chasing the ball all at once. It was mainly targeted at under sevens. So we thought seeing as that's your expertise at the moment, we'd put that to you. Have you ever had that as a challenge before?
[Ellie]
Yes, when I first started with my under sevens, that's all they seemed to do. I think a lot of similar ages like that will just go for that football. It's sort of like new for them. They've probably gone from sessions that they've done on their own with other kids around, but they're going into a team now where they're going to have to learn to make passes, to learn to tackle. So I think over a period of time, little things come naturally once you start adding your points in. But I worked on a lot of space games, but still having the football involved. And the more they got used to being in their own space and finding their own positions, that's when it sort of led to, right, we can work as a team. We don't all have to run for that football. That one person might, but the next person might be the option if they win that football. So I did a lot of space games, sometimes without the football, just to get them used to it and then add the football in. But when I first started Mona Sevens, that was really tough to not get them all chasing for that one football and then having to freeze it and then go, right, look where you all are. Look what you all stood round. Where's going to be the option next if we win that ball? So I think stripping it back to sometimes basics, getting them used to their own space, maybe having their own football at their own feet, and then interlinking it with how are we going to do that as a team and then work on that. But it takes time. I've had the under-sevens now for a full season and then they're just leading into under-eights now. So I think over time, once you get your points across, experiences, sometimes it's hard to do at training. Sometimes you have to play another team to see the progression or to see what other teams might do. It definitely took time for me and the other coach that I work with to stop that all chasing the ball, so.
[Jamie]
It's at that age, a lot of coaches say kids are a little bit like bees to a honeypot. It's not like you're the only case and you've done anything wrong. It's just, it's natural. Kids are going to all want the ball at the same time.
[Ellie]
Yeah, but definitely stick at it. Don't think it's not going right. I'm going to give up on it. I think just keep going. Ellie, we're coming up to the end of the show now, but our regular listeners know that this is the time for a swift session. We give you 30 seconds to explain to us a session idea or a practice idea. So I'll set a timer up if you're okay with this challenge. Yes, definitely. Okay, and your time starts now.
[Louise]
So I'll tend to do a warm up arrival activity. I'll do a quick, like a sort of splat game. I tend to stick to similar arrival activity. So my kids know they come in, they know what their arrival activity is. I'll, depending on what my session is, so for example, if I'm doing 1v1s, I did four club gates. They've got to beat their player through the different club gates, and then I like to finish with a game. I thought I was thinking, she's not going to do it, but then you got there in the end. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to that now that the time's up to kind of expand on it at all? No, I sort of just stick to a structure. A lot of it might be the same, it might be repetitive as my first arrival game, but my kids know that they can probably go into that game on their own without me being there, and they're... straight in there, then I'll always get a ball at the feet and then I'll go into the topic that I'm working on that might be going off from the game that we've played on the Sunday, what we might need to improve on, I'll stick to that and then I always like to finish with a little game for them.
[Jamie]
How important do you think it is with the player ownership then, it was what you're giving them as your arrival activity, the fact that they know it and they can kind of just go and jump into something straight away?
[Ellie]
I think it's good, I think regardless of how young they are or how old they are, if they get that repetition in, they get that ownership, they become as a player, as a person that they know that they can do something on their own or they can do something without that teacher or that coach being there, I think it's definitely key to have that ownership.
[Jamie]
Thanks for that Ellie, it's been great to listen to your journey so far and to hear your advice and hopefully that will help plenty of aspiring coaches and new coaches that are listening to us today.
[Ellie]
Yeah, thank you for having me.
[Jamie]
Thank you very much. Brilliant, thanks Ellie. Right, that's all we have time for today but don't forget to check out the episode description for all the links to our platforms, there you will be able to click through to the England football community, this is where you can post your coaching questions for us to discuss on the podcast or just simply to connect with loads of wonderful coaches.
[Louise]
Yes, we'd love to help you out with your coaching questions so please do check that out. We'll be back soon with another episode of CoachCast so if you haven't already, hit subscribe to make sure you don't miss an episode. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.