Jamie:
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning, the brand-new coaching podcast designed to give you expert insight, session ideas and a platform to discuss your coaching questions and challenges.
I'm Jamie…
Louise:
…and I'm Louise.
In each episode of this series, one of our experts will dissect a specific topic, then speak to a grassroots coach with the aim of helping them and you develop more skilful players.
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Louise:
Hi, Jamie, how are you doing?
Jamie:
All right, thanks. How are you, Louise?
Louise:
Good, thank you. Excited about today's episode?
Jamie:
Yeah, it's nice to actually be in a room with people again. I’m looking forward to a good discussion.
What is it that we're talking about today?
Louise:
So, in our first episode today, we're going to be chatting about creating the right environment for primary age kids.
Jamie:
Well, if we're all ready to kick off, let's get the ball rolling then.
So, let's meet the expert who's going to take us through this topic.
He’s our first ever guest on Coachcast. He’s well known across the coaching community and if you've been to any of his famous roadshows, you will know that this is going to be full of great advice.
It's our early years specialist himself. Pete Sturges. Hi Pete.
Pete:
Hi Everyone and thanks for the invite. This is a really exciting initiative. I'm looking forward to it.
Louise:
Pete, thanks for joining us. We'll jump straight in by asking, what do we mean by the word environment?
Pete:
It's a tricky one because it can be as broad as whether you train on Astroturf or grass, whether you are inside or outside, or whether it's a windy day, a hot day or a freezing cold day. If you're a coach in England, you'll probably experience all of those things in the one session!
So, I think if we bare all those things in mind, but then we broaden it out to, what kind of environment do you as a coach, create for the children who come crashing through the doors because they want to play football?
That's an environment for learning, for development. It's an environment that's really supportive, that tolerates mistakes, that encourages trial and error and discovering new things. Because the thing about primary age children is that through trial and error and through exploration and discovery, that's how they begin to make sense of the world. The world that we want them to make sense of is this world of football. They come with a huge love and passion for it and I think it's really important that we continue that when they come to our sessions.
Jamie:
So, what can a coach do to create the right environment?
Pete:
If you're talking about the coach's contribution to that, it's so important that what comes across to the children is that you actually enjoy being in their company. Unfortunately, we have coaches who are probably the last one to step back and suddenly that thrust in front of a group of kids as a volunteer coach. It might not be their chosen occupation or their chosen pastime, but they want to do it.
So, I think what must come across, first and foremost is that you really enjoy the company of these young children.
And so being kind, being engaging being interested in what they want to talk about and to tell you about, even if it's not related to football, I think that's almost a non-negotiable for coaches working with very, very young children.
They might not be interested in the latest, you know, four, four, two formation or how wingbacks can be more effective against playing in the back five. They're not interested in that, but they do want to know that you're interested in them.
Jamie:
So, it's really important that coaches, (whether it's their first coaching session with a new group) is to connect with them and really understand what they're all about. Once they've got that connection, they can kind of have a bit more of a positive, more friendly environment.
Pete:
Absolutely. And one of the easiest ways to do that is just to smile. Being positive, catching children doing things well is really important.
And that's a very subtle change from how we used to develop coaches in the past. Because on our courses and through their assessments, they were trained to a very high degree to spot mistakes.
Well, if you take that into the coaching of very young children, what you’re doing is stopping every five minutes because the kids have made a mistake. And I'll tell you what, at the end of an hour session, you're going to be worn out and the kids are going to be bored stiff.
So, actually accepting that mistakes are going to happen and really dealing internally with that. Trying to wait for those moments when somebody does something really well is actually a very powerful mechanism, not just for an emotional connection between you and the child, but also to send a message out to the rest of the group.
That's what it looks like. That's what success looks like, and we're looking for all of you to be doing more of those kind of things.
So, at a , I think coaches can begin to embrace this kind of approach in their coaching.
Jamie:
It's a learning mechanism, isn't it? Where the point is to learn from mistakes. Identifyt hem and then you can develop from there. Where, if you really strict, that's restricting the child and they might be fearful of mistakes. Whereas we want to bring a generation of kids coming through that aren't scared to take risks.
Pete:
Yeah, I think that's a really important point, Jamie. I think we’ve failed if we if we produce players who are risk averse, what we want to do is develop players who can manage risk. So even at the highest level, they know when to either risk the ball or, you know, risk a decision that they might want to make.
That doesn't happen overnight. And just because you become an adult, it doesn't mean you immediately develop this ability. We can actually start it with our youngest players and just help them manage risk, manage the decisions that they make, but hopefully with a more positive and a more threatening attacking and exciting head on. So that, you know, we don't always look as though we only ever produce players who play safe. You know, are boring, are one dimensional. We want to develop exciting, creative, three dimensional players.
Louise:
Pete, how important are arrival activities in creating the environment we want for our young players?
Pete:
Arrival activities are important because it gets children immediately connected with football and because children arrive at different times. It's a great way for the coach to just set them off doing something productive so they can get that their ideas settled in their head.
They can take a little bit of time to get themselves ready because they might have just rushed from work themselves. They've quickly laid everything out and so that they might be feeling a little bit stressed themselves. So, an arrival activity can be quite productive on lots of different levels.
Louise:
If you were going to coach a new group, what would you do when they arrive to show them that you’re creating a positive and friendly environment?
Pete:
If it was a new group, in fact, I tend to do it every session. I don't wait for the children to walk over to me. I'm already walking over to them. And so, I want them to know that I am so pleased that they've come to the session, so I'm walking over to them doing something with my arms- as though to say – “Wow, it's fantastic that you're here” and I'm already smiling. If it's a new group, I'm already saying. “and what's your name? I'm Pete. What's your name?” And so that the use of the name is an immediate connection between myself and the player.
It's overlooked so many times, but it's such an important and significant connector. We can't overlook it or pay lip service to. It's really important.
Jamie:
Do we want coaches to be giving player ownership in their sessions to help create the right environment?
Pete:
It is a bit of a minefield, because when we speak to coaches about giving ownership, it's as though the coach can sometimes think that, well, we give every decision over to the children. Then they try it out and it becomes chaos because the kids are either not prepared for it or the coach is not as skilled at actually giving ownership. So, if it's a really important thing with a new group of children, I wouldn't give them ownership over that, but there's lots of other things I can give them ownership over.
It's actually quite a long, progressive journey that you want to take the children on, to become totally responsible or more responsible for what happens in the session. You don't give every responsibility and total ownership right at the beginning.
The children have to learn how to cope with this responsibility and to deal with it effectively and productively because you still want the time together to be productive. So, I think it's important coaches understand the concept, but then they help the children come to terms with having more responsibility. Being included, being asked what might happen next and so they not only get a sense that the session is about us, but we're totally involved in it. And we are an important part in this in this development.
Jamie:
There's two parts to what we're looking at in this episode today. So, it's creating the environment, but also throughout the whole series. We want to help coaches develop more skilful players. So, in line with that, what do we also mean by skill?
Pete:
This is a tricky one, because if you ask 100 coaches, you'd probably get 100 different answers. But for me and in terms of young children, it's their ability to express what they're capable of doing. If they're coming to a football session, then being skilful is the expression of what they're capable of doing with their body, with the ball and with the decisions that they make. So, we have to look in terms of an age appropriate lens. So, we wouldn't expect the children to display the same levels of skills that you would see on the Wembley pitch with Gareth’s senior players.
But what we want to try to do is, put some things in place so that whatever potential the child has got, that begins to show through and it links everything together Jamie. Because if the environment's right and the approach of the coaches is appropriate, what we get the children to do, is to relax, know that mistakes are accepted and tolerated, are willing to try new things, and that's where being skilful really begins to kick in. Then suddenly you've got children who are trying new things. They've been introduced to the joy of learning new things, which is another fantastic thing that we can give our young children.
But they're also developing more and more capability when they play football. And if the environment's right, this is a real cauldron for developing not just good footballers, but great people as well.
Jamie:
You've got six key pillars to look out for in terms of skill, to help coaches maybe identify that. Would you be able to give it a bit of a brief look into that?
Pete:
Yeah. I mean, we're asking coaches to become better at observing their players so that the feedback, advice and guidance that they give their young players is more focused and more appropriate for each player, rather than just coming out with some generic, you know, comments that the kids probably dismiss or just hear as background noise.
We're actually trying to say to coaches, look at each player and then try to help them on an individual basis. So, if we look at positioning, if we look at movement, if we look at the timing of that positioning and those movements, there's three of them.
If we look at scanning. That ability to look around the field and inform your decisions by taking in information from your immediate surroundings, and then we look at disguise and deception and we look at the techniques that you then use to actually be effective in a football game.
If we look at each individual player through those six lenses, I think it will give you a clearer picture of what help and advice we could give each child. And they might be very strong in some of these.
So, you might get some young children who have a whole variety of different techniques, but their scanning ability or their ability to look around and notice where their opponents are or where their teammates are, or where there are spaces on the pitch that might not be at the same level.
So, if you notice that and can help them there, suddenly they've got a whole range of new great techniques and their scanning has improved so they can apply those techniques to really impact positively upon the game. And this is the really exciting bit about looking at skill through those six elements.
Jamie:
We’ve actually got an article on The Bootroom called ‘What makes a goal skilful?’ Which mentions some of those elements. The article showcases a few goals, that on first look, people might not think are that skilful but actually when you really focus, you notice that it’s things such as the timing, technique and movement that have created the goal.
Louise:
Yeah, it’s definitely something that coaches could look out for. If you’re not focussing on those elements you could miss the moments where players are being skilful.
Pete:
Absolutely, the game of football is a really complex thing because you've got 22 people moving independently and at times obviously in sync with each other. But the more information you can take in from your surroundings, the more techniques you've got, the better your timing of your movements. We want players to be highly skilful in a very, very unpredictable environment.
In an ideal world, if anybody in the world wanted to say, “where are we going to get a skilful player from?” I want everybody to be saying you need to go to England first because they are doing something right through that player's pathway that is prioritising skill and the coaches who work with them are producing players of the highest levels of skill. So, if you want a skilful player, go to England.
In the past, they wouldn't have come to us, but I think the landscape is changing now and these podcasts and all of the resources that are available to coaches are really going to help send out some very strong and consistent messages. That's the exciting bit.
Louise:
Over the years, have you started to see more coaches providing good environments that encourage skilful players?
Pete:
I absolutely have, but it's taken a decade, so this hasn't just started, you know, after the last World Cup or following the Euros in the summer. This has been a decade of work where we've really asked coaches to change the priorities of what the coaching session is about.
And I think the environment now is being established in lots and lots of really good ways, and we're now reaping the rewards of that because it is the bottom line. If you don't get the environment right, the rest really can't kick in.
Jamie:
We've actually spoken to a few England players past and present recently about what makes the right environment. And we've got a couple of clips for you now to listen to Pete. first up, we've got Steven Gerrard, who talked about how the environment at Liverpool made him comfortable and eager to return.
Steven Gerrard:
So, when I was actually on my way to the trial, I was the most nervous I’d ever been or the first time I’ve ever felt nerves for real. But the key day for me was the first time I met Steve Heighway and his two coaches around him, Dave Shannon and Hughie McAuley and it was the welcome that I got. They made me feel really at ease. They were friendly. I felt like within, you know, being around them the first few hours I felt like I’d known them an awful lot longer. I didn’t know this at the time but it was certainly that welcome that helped me and made me want to go back for more.
Louise:
And then we've got a second clip from Harry Maguire, who spoke about his experience as a youngster Brunsmere Athletic.
Harry Maguire:
The most important thing at that age is to play with a smile on your face. No pressure, go out, score goals, enjoy yourself, enjoy the training. Yeah, I think it was more little games and obviously little relay races, drills, I can remember that. Everything’s really competitive but everything’s done with a smile on your face and that’s the most important thing.
Louise:
So, did anything stand out for you in those clips, Pete?
Pete:
I mean, it's music to my ears, really, and to have players and obviously a new manager who's, you know, making his way in the managerial field. To have two players of that stature really encapsulates a lot of what we've already spoken about. It's just fantastic. I think what Steve said about the welcome and about the, you know, Feeling at ease. You can't possibly be yourself if you're anxious or you're worried about something. So, a coach who can put you at ease and it feels really quite natural. And if a coach can then say, you know what, I believe in you and we're going to go together on this journey because I think there's a lot of potential there that you know, we can release together. I just think that's fabulous.
I think the point Harry made about fun and enjoyment is absolutely key. But it doesn't mean that the opposite of fun is seriousness. You know, it's actually… fun is a great way to engage players, get their attention so that if you've got some important learning to do, they're already in the right place for that. Because you've put them in a place where they feel comfortable. They're having fun and they're ready to connect with whatever learning comes next.
Louise:
Thanks for that Pete. There's some really great points and takeaways for our coaches there.
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Jamie:
Now, this is the part of the show where we're joined by a grassroots coach. We'll hear about their experiences so far and find out what coaching challenge they're currently facing. Our expert will then hopefully be able to provide them with the guidance they need, so no pressure here Pete.
Today, we're delighted to be joined on the line by Shalin from Leicestershire. Hi Shalin, how are you doing?
Shalin:
OK, Jamie I'm good, thanks.
Louise:
Hi, Shalin, thanks for joining us. So, to start with, can you tell us a little bit about your coaching journey so far?
Shalin:
Sure, I can. I guess I haven't been coaching that long. I'm currently supporting the team where I'm kind of the assistant coach. I'm hoping to progress onto leading a team over the next few months or a year, and I'm looking at ways of improving my coaching, really.
Louise:
So Shalin, can you tell us about the coaching challenge that you're currently facing?
Shalin:
Sure. I guess my real challenge comes with, when I'm working with my players. I want to give them the best experience possible to help them fall in love with the game. How do I create sessions that allow my players to do that whilst helping to develop their skills at the same time?
Pete:
Crikey, how long have you got?! I think… Do you know what? rightly or wrongly, I didn't think that might be the first question. I thought the first question might be, we've got some children who are not engaged in the sessions.
So, combining the two things, if you want to give your children… how old are they, by the way, Shalin?
Shalin:
They're between six and eight.
Pete:
- And do most of them enjoy football and want to be, you know, they've got this dream of becoming a footballer?
Shalin:
The majority of them do, I have one or two that don't, and I think are being pushed by their parents.
Pete:
Yeah, and I think that's the reason I ask the question. That's probably representative of a lot of teams in grassroots where you get children who are absolutely passionate about football and children who aren't. And yet they're in your, they're in the same session. And so if we're looking at providing the best experience. Let's think about them as children first and footballers second. I think if you do that and you meet their needs as young children who want activities to be exciting, fun, engaging, they want to see the coach entering their world, not the coach demanding that you come out of this beautiful world of childhood and you enter this really harsh, professional world of football.
So, I think a coach who can get that balance right will immediately help the group of children on board.
And then over time, (and this is why it's called long term player development) because we've got much better levels of engagement, attention and the conditions for learning are much better. We're going to be able to drip, drip in all the important footballing bits that are going to help them when they when they play their matches
and in their training sessions. But if we don't meet their needs as children first, you're never going to get full buy-in.
Shalin:
Do you have any tips Pete on how I would do that?
Pete:
Yeah, for the activities. Initially, certainly within the six’s, I would look to - I'm not saying you don't do this - I would look to breathe real energy and enthusiasm and life into the session. If that's not your natural personality, that could be quite difficult.
So, another way of doing it without that enthusiasm and that wackiness to just get the kids saying, “Wow, this is a great place to be”. Adding elements of appropriate competition can sometimes help. So, if you have children come in as friends, it might be that the friends either play together against the another, the two players who might be friends. If it's appropriate, you could play against your friend because you know it's a pretty safe place to be. You know your friend well, you know when you can draw the line and you know that your friend and you will never overstep the line. And so it's actually a really nice place to be to learn new things. So, I would certainly begin exploring those kind of things.
And also instead of saying, Oh, we're going to work on counterattacking tonight, we can change the language or we're not going to work on defending tonight. We're going to work on getting the ball back quickly so that we could go and score some goals. And just that change in language can actually get the kids on board because their perception and thoughts about defending might not match with their reason for being with you and their reason for playing football. So the more experienced and skilled we can become and how we present everything, I think the better, you know, engagement and attention you're going to get from the children.
Would that help?
Shalin:
I love that as a tip. I think every time I've mentioned the word defending, you see a little shudder going through the kids and they really don't like the words. So just flipping that around…
Pete:
I had one then! Shalin when you've mentioned it. Yeah.
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Shalin:
Ha, So yeah I love that. That's a great thank you.
Jamie:
So, while you’re here Shalin, is there anything else that we can help you with today?
Shalin:
Yeah, absolutely. I was going to ask, the other kind of challenge I have at the minute is with my players. I have a set of, or a wide range of players that come in from different backgrounds and different ethnicity to the mix of male and female. I also have three or four children that have certain disabilities as well. What's the best way to incorporate everyone into the game and making sure I'm meeting the needs of individual players as well?
Pete:
Yeah, I mean, this is such a difficult thing. When we started out, it was over ten years ago on trying to meet the individual needs of every player. We recognized, even then, that it's almost an impossible task.
So, what we have to try to do is meet individual needs as much as possible. But there's also opportunities when you may not be able to meet someone's needs, exactly. But you can work with them in terms of resilience, about determination about not giving up because what you're asking them to do is quite tough or it's not as easy as some of the things that you might be asking them to do where you can actually meet their needs.
So it's a really difficult one. If we're talking about individual player development. I think part of the planning for coaches is to look at your group. So if you've got an activity and you might be playing some small number practices, part of your planning is not just to look at the area or whether you have goals or how many cones you're going to use. I would be looking really closely at who plays against who. I would be looking at who my partner was if it was a two v two, and I would expect the coach to have thought a little bit about who we're going to play against. So that it's the best match possible with the group of children that we've got.
I think too often the coaches get drawn to the X's and O's, and they actually miss the magic that can be created if you match the right personalities, the right levels of skill, children with similar abilities or children with different abilities. But you're doing it for a very particular reason. And so that you can explain to the children… “I'm putting you two players against these two players and this might be tough” you know. “So one of the one of the constraints on the game is that a goal for you counts three, but for them, it counts as one because you're going to find it tougher than they are.”
These conversations we can have with very young children and they will understand.
But we have to have a reason why we are asking them to do certain things if it's uneven.
Shalin:
Yeah, that's really, really good to know actually. And that makes sense. Just changing that up a little bit. Sounds like a really good way of making sure that I keep all the players engaged at the same time as well. Thank you.
Pete:
And also, and this links probably the last two questions together. If an activity has an opportunity to score a goal, then you're probably going to get a bit more engagement from the children. It doesn't mean the kind of activity where you have to wait ten minutes to take the one shot that misses, and then you have to wait another ten minutes before you can put it right. Learning is about levels of repetition and feedback, so you need games where children can have a shot, work on the feedback and then have another shot straight or almost straight away so they can actually respond to the feedback they're getting.
“Oh, I pulled it to the right” or “I went over the bar”. If you have to wait ten minutes for your next shot, that feedback that you get from that first shot is of no use to us all.
So, lower the numbers, have more goal types or goal activity and goal scoring going on. So the children can actually benefit from this kind of internal feedback. It's a great session anyway, because you’re then working on celebrations, who's got the best celebration? So your best player might not have the best celebration, but it's a chance for them to shine. So all of those things go into the melting pot.
Shalin:
That's a brilliant tip. I think giving my players a chance to score more goals, will certainly get them more excited and itching to get back to the next session as well. Thank you.
Pete:
And also, if we're linking it to skilful players, one of the hardest skills is putting the ball in the back of the net. Yet consistently, when we've done some research or we've asked the question, it's the part of the game that we practice least.
So, you know, we've got to start this process off with our very young players.
Shalin:
Thank you Pete, appreciate that.
Louise:
Thanks Shalin for joining us and really hope that Pete’s tips will help you to provide a fun and engaging environment for your kids and help you in your coaching journey as you go on.
Shalin:
Thank you. I'm sure they will.
Pete:
Thanks, Shalin.
Jamie:
Thank you.
<Music>
Jamie:
We're coming up to the end of the episode now, but before we blow the full-time whistle, we're going to try a little feature we like to call Swift Session. This is where we challenge our guests to come up with a session idea that relates to the theme of the episode.
Louise:
So in this case, we're looking for something that supports the environment we want to create. So, an activity that's fun, friendly, engaging and gives the players an opportunity to be skilful. So it can involve any number of activities but, Pete… You'll only have one minute to explain your ideas. Are you up for the task?
Pete:
Yes. And I'll try to link it to some of the conversation that we had with Shalin about including more goalscoring in your in your session. So this one should really help coaches to prioritise goal scoring.
Louise:
Fantastic. Looking forward to it. Okay. If you ready. Time starts now.
Pete:
So the area is ten yards long and 5 yards wide with a goal at each end and it's designed to help players keep the ball on the pitch and for them to be more skilful. Two teams, each have two players. One player from each team is on the pitch, playing 1v1 trying to score. But, if the ball goes off the pitch, the player of the team, that hasn't put the ball out, runs on with their ball to play against his new opponent 1v1.
So if your team keeps the ball on the pitch, you can carry on trying to score goals. If it goes off, your opponents will race onto the pitch with their new ball to play against your teammates. It's a fast and flowing game that includes lots and lots of goals.
Louise:
Really enjoyed that, I think you did it plenty of time. Do you feel like you fitted everything in?
Well, whether it makes any sense to the coaches, I'm not sure, but we do have a video of the session and that might prove really useful to go along with this audio version of it. And it's a really good one to begin to engage young children. We've lowered the numbers so the kids get lots of touches and lots of contact and shots on goal. And it's really engaging, so hopefully it'll help the coaches with their sessions.
Louise:
So before we finish the show, do you have any last takeaway messages for coaches?
Pete:
Yes. Always try to be kind, be patient and keep the young children at the centre of everything that we do. We know that football's important, but the way that we develop our young children is more important and we have to keep going back to that. As much as we love football. If we can combine those two things, they will have the same passion and enthusiasm for football that we have.
Jamie:
Great stuff, Pete. Thank you very much for joining us on Coachcast. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
Pete:
Thanks, Jamie, thanks, Louise.
Jamie:
Right. that's all we have time for today. If you want to find out more about what we've discussed in this episode, head over to The Bootroom@thefa.com to read ‘How can you help develop skilful players’ and ‘players view the right environment’
The latter include insight from even more England stars. And don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, England Football Learning, and follow us on Twitter, where a handle is @EnglandLearning.
Louise: We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast, so keep an eye on our social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts from. All that's left to say is from all of us England Football Learning. Thanks for listening.