Jamie:
Hello and welcome to Coachcast by England Football Learning: the coaching podcast designed to give you expert insight, session ideas and a platform to discuss your coaching questions and challenges. I'm Jamie...
Louise:
And I'm Louise. in each episode of this season, one of our experts will dissect a specific topic and then speak to a grassroots coach with the aim of helping them and you provide players with inspirational opportunities. So, thanks for tuning into Coachcast. In this episode, we're focusing on different playing surfaces and how they provide your players with opportunities to develop their skills.
Jamie:
Danny Fenner is our expert for this episode and we're delighted that he's joined us in the studio now. So hi, Danny. Welcome to the show.
Danny:
Hi, guys. Thanks for having us.
Louise:
Hi, Danny. Thanks for your time today. Before we start, do you want to tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself and your role at the FA?
Danny:
Okay yeah. basically I've been working for the FA for six years, I worked for FA education, I'm a CDO and I'm working on the diversity and inclusion team. So that's supporting coaches; black and Asian, but it also disability football as well up and down the country. But my main region is the Southeast.
Louise:
Can you get us started by telling us what the different playing surfaces are?
Danny:
Okay, yes, it's a good question to ask. So you've got different surfaces. You've got the conventional at the moment in the 3G, now 4G surfaces, that's where mainly the grassroots games that people are able to get to play on those surfaces. You've got the 1G, so if you're coming from the 1980s1970s like myself, which is the astro but it's got sand based on it, where it duels up with hockey as well. You've also got the concrete and the playground kind of football. So we can all remember in our childhood playing in the playground, whether it be at school or where I was from, I was brought up on an estate where you've got these like concrete kind of mugers kind of football court. We've got the grass pitches, you know, believe it or not, we play on grass and we've got those conventional grass pitches which we usually play our matches on and we train on and if you're on the coast and you listen to this, you might be thinking, "What about the sand?" And you know, we've seen beach football and people doing pre-season on the beaches and then back in the day you had those five-a-side courts that used to play in those sports centres, so you have those indoor courts. So there are different surfaces that we conventionally play on in England.
Louise:
So what returns and trade-offs do you get with each surface you've mentioned there?
Danny:
Yes, so the majority of the players and grassroots will be playing on that 3G, 4G pitch and the returns are is that it will improve your touch, you'll probably look really good on the pitch as well because everything is a little bit more true and it's replicated on playing on the Wembley pitch for instance, it's a really nice flat surface. The trade-off from that is though, if you train on a 3G, 4G pitch all the time and then you get to play on your local Hackney marshes, for instance, there's nothing wrong with Hackney marshes, but there might be some bumps on the grass which makes the little things a little bit more difficult. So it's trying to replicate that; you're playing on this nice surface, but then all of a sudden you're playing on the grass pitch where you're playing your matches and sometimes it doesn't match up. You've also got the 1G hockey pitches where the trade-off from that is that the bounce is really high when it's snowy and when it's cold it freezes, so it's like playing on glass. But the returns from that is that your first touch has to be on point. It has to be out there because the ball slides off, it's a little bit quicker, your acceleration deceleration is a little bit different as well because you can use the sand to help you. Then you've got the concrete and we talked about concrete football, we talk about the playground football. Again, the ball bounces a little bit higher. Travel over the ball is a little bit different because you've got the rebound boards, as well. You might have walls where you can play up against. So the returns on that is, I used to love playing on the concrete or playground with the walls next to me because I could play a 1-2 by myself and I know I'd get the ball back without passing it to someone who's going to be really greedy and take the ball by themselves. But the grass pitches, this is where we play most of our matches on and our games on. We are probably not as fortunate enough in the grassroots games to play on nice flat pitches. So the returns from that is that we get opportunities to test ourselves on our first touch because the ball might bump over that little mole hill, the grass might be a bit a little higher than what it is if you play a game the following week on another ground it might be a bit lower. During the seasons it changes. So during the winter the ball will slide a little bit quicker, you know, slide off the surface a little bit quicker. But then in the summer the bounce will be a little bit higher. So you just have to judge yourself into the seasons. So under return-based, it helps you in regards to judging what the pitch might look like, what kind of boots that if you're fortunate enough to have different types of boots, whether it be studs or whether it be mould to use that. I've talked about sand and probably people in this podcast are thinking, "What's he talking about?" But when we think about the sand, especially the people that play on the coast and I remember going to Suffolk to Lowestoft beach, they were doing pre-season there and I can remember taking a group of Central Excellence boys from Leyton Orient who were used to what we say, 'cage football', 3G football and they went to play Ipswich town on the sand and we got absolutely annihilated because we didn't know how to travel with the ball in the sand. We didn't know, you know, striking the ball, is that a little bit different? The ball was different as well. What the returns are from that is that there was a lot of flicks and tricks from the Ipswich boys, but a lot of aerial stuff, as well. So they were flicking the ball up and then doing volleys by themselves. So they're setting themselves up because that's what the game demanded from them playing on the sand. And running on there, our boys are under 10, so you can they're imagine as fit as anything. After two minutes, they were absolutely gasping for their breath because running on the sand was completely different than running on grass. And the last bit is the indoors. You know, the returns from that is that it's quick, it's dynamic, there are people in your faces all the time because it's 4v4, 5v5, the ball, if people in this podcast that from my generation might remember the yellow ball that just bounced that a little bit differently tested you on the touch, but then also striking the ball, if you didn't strike the ball in the right places, it will bloom then high up in the air. So again, just test in your technique. So those five or six different surfaces that I've talked about, if you've had experience on playing any of those six, you're definitely going get trade-offs, but you definitely can get returns, but it's just about the balance.
Jamie:
Keeping those trade-offs and returns in mind, do different services then produce different types of players?
Danny:
Yeah, most definitely. So we talked about the caged football and the concrete football that I call it, it definitely gives you those different types of returns and produces these different types of players. So if I give you an example, like, the concrete football and the playground football might give you those Jaden Sanchos because the areas are a little bit tighter, it's a little bit more frantic, it's less organized than the conventional going to a grassroots team and playing. You have to be a little bit more agile on the ground. You have to be a little bit, when it comes to deception, it has to be that little bit quicker because people are tight to you, it's a smaller area, the surface is much quicker than playing on a conventional 3G, 4G pitch or grass pitch. So when you see those little trick players, they usually come from those kind of different environments because that's what the game demands of them in there; doing the flicks and tricks. So you'll see that. So that's just talking about the in-possession players. But then we've got those three phases in the game; in-possession, out-of-possession, and transition. So if I talk a little bit about the out-f-possession stuff is that if you're playing in those caged environments or you're playing on concrete, the one thing that you're not going to do is slide on the floor, the reason being you going to get cut and you might stick to your bed that night. So you have to think about if I can't make a slide tackle, how can I then try to intercept the ball? So at the moment Paul Holder has done a great article on The Boot Room where he talks about interception. So again, the different demands of the surface will give you different types of players. So when we talk about interception, maybe staying on those kind of pitches, especially the hard pitches or the 1G pitches, you've got to stay on your feet a little bit longer and you've got to try to intercept the ball, you're going to delay a little bit more. But if I'm playing on the grass pitch, it's a nice October day and I can get a slide tackle to win the ball back, I'll be able to do that, as well. So to answer your questions, those different surfaces will produce different types of players if they just stay on those different surfaces.
Jamie:
Well, we've actually got a couple of clips here for you to listen to now. Two former England stars, Sol Campbell and Wayne Rooney mentioned playing on different surfaces when they spoke to us about their development journey.
Sol Campbell:
I started as a street footballer really, playing football in the streets or maybe over the park or in a block of flats playing in tight areas. I think that you prove your skill because in a block of flats you've got two lifts, you know the size of the lift is about, I don't know, 1. 20m maybe, maybe less than that, maybe a metre wide. So you've got a small goal to kind of shoot at and at the same time, you know, you've got all sorts of obstacles and you've got people walking past and you've got to stop and start and then you've got your mates on the side waiting for the next game to start, whoever scores a goal and then you're off, a little bit like a Wembley kind of scenario 1v1s. So you learn a lot like that. It's good, a lot of tight areas, so that's good for me, you know, going forward for football.
Wayne Rooney:
The earliest I remember is, I think I was about four, I think that's as far back as I can go, so... I used to play quite a lot in the house. I mean, I was quite lucky, actually. I lived next to a youth club, so at the back of my house there was a tarmac pitch. So I'd climb over the fence when I was a bit older, before I'd climb over the fence and I'd go out on there for hours on my own practicing shooting, free kicks, passing, used to pass against the wall and different things. So like, before I'd go to school, after I'd get home from school. As I was a little bit older if I wasn't going to train with Everton I was always out playing.
Louise:
So firstly, what are your thoughts after hearing from Sol and Wayne? And secondly, are there any other case studies of players that have played on different surfaces?
Danny:
It brought a smile to my face, it really did. It brought a smile to my face to know that when we talk about players and the different environments that they come from. So Sol talked about the estate base and Wayne talked jumping over the fence to get into his local youth club. We had the opportunity a few years back to do those kind of things. It's changed a little bit now and we've got more organized football, we've got more community clubs, more grassroots clubs where maybe the kids are only training once a week with their particular clubs. But beforehand, we were on the streets playing till 7, 8, 9 o'clock at night until mum or dad used to, you know, send a search party out to get you back into the house. Society has changed a little bit and because society has changed and children are more at home, in front of the computer or in the safety of their own home, how do we then replicate the stuff that we used to do in the past? And that's where we might talk about later on, now as a coach, how can you replicate those little freebie free opportunities? The cage football opportunities, the youth club opportunities, to indoor, or just playing football with a bit of freedom. So it really brought a really big smile to my face, as I say, the likes of Sol Campbell and Wayne Rooney who are, you know, two of the greatest footballers that we've produced in this country, that came from that kind of environment and the different surfaces which gave them different returns. The case studies bit, it's a good point that you made is that there's this place in South London called Concrete Catalonia. So, in Barcelona where the likes of Messi, Xavi, Piqué and the rest of the guys were created in the Barcelona Academy, we've actually got one in South London. It's not as formal as the Barcelona Academy but we've got it and with that we've got players that are playing in the Premier League like Treboh Chalobah, Emile Smith Rowe, Jaden Sancho, Reuben Loftus-Cheek and they all came from this 10-mile radius of South London, which when you think about it, it's amazing, all these players that were playing in the Premiership and you think, in a 10-mile radius, this is where they come from and the environments where they come from as well, which is absolutely amazing. There's a stat as well that it's 14% of English-born Premier League players were born in this 10-mile radius. And you think, 14% of all the Premier League players, when you think about all the foreign players and that Are born in this 10-mile radius in South London, there must be something there that we should replicate up and down the country.
Louise:
Would you prefer to use certain surfaces for specific age groups or would you encourage all players to play on different surfaces whenever they can?
Danny:
I think it would be the latter, Louise. It would definitely be different surfaces when you can. Now that might be hard. Like, I've moved to a little village where the only surface that we've got is a grass pitch. Trying to get indoor space or trying to get a 3G is near enough impossible. But if I get the opportunity to, I would definitely get the girls that I work with to play on those different surfaces. So any advice to coaches that are listening to this podcast, if you can try to replicate or find different surfaces during the seasons to get your players to play on, that would definitely benefit your players in their receiving skills, their first touch, their running with the ball, their working out of possession, how they tackle, how they intercept, how they work together in small areas, how they might work in big areas. So definitely, the more surfaces that you work on the better player that you will become.
Jamie:
Are some services better than others with regards to helping players develop our six core capabilities? And for our listeners, those capabilities are scanning, timing, movement, positioning, deception, and technique.
Danny:
Yeah, definitely. All surfaces that we spoke about at the beginning give those returns and those trade-offs. But if I'm playing on say a hard surface where the ball skips that little bit quicker, and my first touch has to be really on point, enable me to create space in such a tight corner, it'll definitely help in terms of my instinct, first touch and also creativity. And that definitely on the terms where we talk about those hard surfaces do that. But then when we talk about scanning, any surface that you play on, you have to try and scan, you have try to be aware of what's around you. But if I play in cage football or say playground football where there are multiple players that are on the court and the surface with you, I would have to scan that little bit quicker, I have to be aware that a little bit quicker what's around me, because everything's really instant. So I'll give you an example. So when I was at secondary school, we had a field, and I went to an all-boys school and then every boy was playing football on the field. So the year 7s would have this little plot, the year 8s would have a little plot, the year 9s would have a bigger plot, the year 10s would have a bigger plot than the year 9s and the year 11s would have that big, you know, surface. But, if you can imagine, some of the pitches were going against each other length ways and width ways. So you have like five games going on at the same time with five footballs and your scanning would have to be on point, because you're not just looking at the ball, you're looking at your teammates, but you're looking at the year 11 that's just crashing into you. So, providing those environments would definitely help in your scanning. In terms of movement and timing, if I'm on the 3G pitch and I'm fortunate to have a third of the pitch and we can play like 7v7 and a bit of a larger pitch, my movement, we're looking a bit different. I can delay it a little bit longer because I've got more space to go and try to move into. But if I'm playing in a tight area, I have to do that a little bit quicker, a little bit sharper and the distance will probably be shorter as well because of the size of the pitch. And thinking about the deception, so I don't know if you saw the Jaden Sancho goal against Chelsea, he's gone one on one with the goalkeeper and he was able to slide it probably only about two or three yards to the goalkeeper's left. But the only reason he's done that the deception by dropping his hips and his shoulders to the left and then playing it to the left hand side of the goalkeeper. And when you look at that you're just like, "You could have scored in a five-a-side goal there." So obviously he's replicated it from where he's come from, from being in the street football, wherever it is, where he can't aim for the far corners or the top corners, he has to go low and he has to go near the goalkeeper try and score. The only way he can do that is disguise and deception against the goalkeeper by dropping his shoulders and his hips a little bit, a little bit of a faint for the goalkeeper, I think it was Mendy to go one way for him to just slide it past him the other way and you look at that and you think, "What a great finish." But he's probably done that 1000 times in the environment that he's been in. So definitely, in helping the players in their six core capabilities, using different surfaces will be able to give you those returns from that.
Jamie:
Can you tell us what the term 'informal football' means? And is it important for me?
Danny:
It means free play. So you turn up, you just play football and play what time you want to play in, what environment you want to play in, you are able to play 5v5, 7v5, if you're good enough to play 1v6 you're playing like the games like Wembley where you could have like 20 of you in one goal in the 18-yard box and it just it looks like organised chaos. But it's football being played but it's being played in different scenarios. So that's what I mean by informal football, that yeah, there could be a coach there but the coach is just facilitating play, giving them the safety and the reassurance in and around for them to just go and play. So I did a blog a couple of years ago where I talked about the variety of coaching and one of those things is try to think one Tuesday, night especially when it comes to those darker months or it's coming to the end of a school term, when you just go, "Look, we're just going to play matches today and off you go. I've set up the pitches for you, go and play how you do it, how you structure the tournament, how you pick the teams, it's just you." And again, we talk about that psychological and the social side, it gives a bit of ownership to the players, but then it also gives you a time as a coach to go and breathe.
Louise:
Okay, so finally, do you have any top tips for coaches who have access to different surfaces and they want to start introducing them to their players?
Danny:
I wouldn't really get really strung up about My kids only play on grass or my kids only play on 3G. You can only play on what you've got. We're a small island, it's just being innovative in terms of training on grass at the moment. Can I try and find a 3G pitch that we can play on and maybe get six weeks in that. We can't get a 3G pitch in, can we try and get a sports hall somewhere? Oh, there are netball courts, the netball players won't like me saying this, but can we try and use those hard surfaces maybe for six weeks? And if you can't, you can't. But then it might be the different types of constraints you might put into the game. So for instance, we talk about like Jadon Sancho and that, it was all about nutmegging someone. So it might be if I can only play on the grass pitch, but I want to develop a really skilful player who likes dribbling, who likes getting past players, so I might put a constraint on there is that, the amount of nutmegs that you get plus a goal will equal five. Fantastic, or the amount of players that you're able to dribble past and try and score, I will give you that number of players that you dribble past. That will equal the amount of goals that you get. So again, constraint-based would be an interesting way, a good concept to use. But like everything, you can't have everything. And I can imagine as a coach, you're listening to this podcast and you're thinking, "How can I get those those five surfaces that you're talking about throughout the season?" There's a good chance that you can't, it's a logistical nightmare, but if you're thinking about it, which basically means that you're giving your players opportunities within the surface that they're playing on, the opportunity to play the game a bit differently. So as long as you're thinking about it, I think you're in a good position to do it. So thumbs up to all those coaches out there that are doing some fantastic work, this is just one element in your toolbox that you might be able to use to develop your players.
Jamie:
Now, this is the part of the show where we're joined by a grassroots coach, but this time it's going to be slightly different. Today, we're joined by Matthew from Southeast London and he's here to chat to Danny about his experience of cage football and to offer his advice to coaches considering playing on this surface. So, thanks for joining us, Matthew and welcome to the show.
Matthew:
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure being on the show, guys. Really appreciate it.
Louise:
Can you tell us a little bit about your coaching journey so far?
Matthew:
I started coaching at the age of 18, I've been coaching for a while now. I'm currently doing my UEFA B, but I've worked across all different types of age groups, from young people from as young as four years old, right up to men's and women's football. So I currently work with another grassroots team at the moment as well with men's football. But yeah, I've just been coaching for a long while and I have a whole wide range of experiences working with different people within football.
Louise:
Okay, that's fantastic. Would you take us back to when you started playing cage football and talk us through your experience of it?
Matthew:
Being from Southeast London, Cage football's pretty much like it's unknown in the area where I grew up in. So I'm from Peckham. Cage football, which we called it like cage football on the pitch, normal concrete pitch is where I grew up on and I was like maybe 11. I didn't initially grow up in England, I was born in Nigeria. So I lived there for like 11 years and when I came, you know, all we played was concrete football. So that was basically what cage football was. And I've always been involved in that from as young as 11 right up until now where I'm still coaching young people within my local area where we've got like this small section of cage football and we've got like a 3G surface. So it's something that has been involved in my coaching career right through the age of 11. I'm 34 now.
Danny:
Yes, so Matt, the stuff that you're doing, can you talk a little bit about that and the players that are coming down, the attributes that you're seeing from these players, but then also delving a little bit on the psychological and social bit that the players are showing?
Matthew:
Okay, so we get a whole wide range of types of players come through within the setup in terms of the cage football. So, myself and another colleague of mine, a friend of myself, this project is called STS Community Project, which basically goes around the local area in Peckham and delivering sessions to young people. These young people are mainly between the ages of 12 to 18, meaning those are the ones who are working there. So you get different types of people coming in, some of them just want to get involved in football, some of them are really into football. But one of the things that you said that I really see with them is that togetherness, it's something that has been constant, even when I was playing cage football, you know, a lot of people within the Southeast, I can't speak for every other areas, but from the Southeast London perspective or Peckham perspective is like there's this unity, people want to move like in herds, it's like a herd community togetherness. It's like they're coming with their friends and they want to showcase their skills as the best player within their setup or within their groups. But I was speaking to you a while ago Dan, and I was saying the cage football within Southeast London is very much like if you're seen as the best or one of the better players within your group in cage football setting, you know, it's almost like you're given like a pass, as in you're one of the better players. So socially socially it's great.
Danny:
Rio Ferdinand's got a documentary at the moment on BT Sport and they talk a lot about the cage football and Jadon Sancho mentioned about everybody wants to see your skills and what you've got in your area and it was all about nutmegging and embarrassing people and Jaden Sancho is only around the corner from Kennington to Peckham, but what was really defining from the actual program was the amount of kids that were at academies, but they were still going back to the cage to play their football. So what is it about the football within these cages that they believe will improve them on their technical skills?
Matthew:
So what you get with cage football, you know, simple things is just the bounce pass off the wall. Yeah, bouncing the ball off the wall and receiving it again. Your touch has to be good. I remember when I was younger and because cage football was such a big thing, so I would go, I see Berbatov's talking about now on his Instagram funny enough and I think maybe that's one of the things that's missing and a lot of players still do it now is they'll go and they're just kicking the ball on the wall for 2-3 hours, just kicking it on the wall and that's what you get with cage football. So you don't have any equipment that is the perimeter and everything's all finely tuned, you know, you've got bricks that are slightly broken, the surface is slightly uneven, so when the ball bounces off the wall and it touches the surface of the ground, it's going to bounce a certain way. So they really have to like manipulate and adjust to how that ball is going to come though it, that's what happens. So on a returning side they're having to think very fast, constantly, they're having to think quickly, they're having to adjust to the bounces and, you know, what they're getting with the ball. So these things are improving them technically.
Danny:
So you've talked about the four corners really well in terms of what you would need technically, physically, psychologically and socially within cage football. So, you've worked in various environments, how could, there are two questions here: how could we use playing cage football, concrete football, whatever you wanted to say and put that into a grassroots element where we're training on the 3G astro, for instance? So that's the first question that I'm going to ask you. And the second question is: how do we get involved like, academy coaches where we can work within these certain environments, but then also bring the people like yourselves into the academy system as well where they can work and support players that have come from these environments?
Matthew:
Like, I'll use me as an example. Like, I came from that setup, but I would say you helped me, Danny in my coaching journey and I'm not just saying this because I'm on here, but it's the truth, I've told you that before, even before being on here. You helped me because putting coaches through CPD training, so aside from what I do with my organization, STS Community Project, I work with another organization which is Rock On Sports and a lot of the coaches that come from that setup are learned coaches or they have been on CPD training and I think that's something that helps these coaches because it gives us the balance to understand how it works in an organized setup, then when we come into a set up as the cage football because that's what we know, that's what we grew up in, we're able to educate the players as to certain things that they need to do to help the transition and make them understand certain things that they need to be doing better when going into a more organized setting, because at the end of the day, the game in a much higher level, it's played on grass, that's where it's played. So the players have to understand how the technical aspect of the game as well as the old, how it all fits together. So I think those coaches being trained, going on courses, so I did my youth module, my FA badges like I said, I'm currently doing my UEFA B at the moment. So these things have helped me to know how to not only help the players, but also go back to my community and work with the coaches and sort of give them tools or food for thought on certain things that they can do differently or add on to what they're already doing. And I can see the benefit of that with some of the coaches that I work with.
Danny:
Going on to that, the balance of doing some of the FA courses and CPD events, but then having that real experience of working in South London within your own community and bringing those two experiences together, like, I've always said, the best coaches that I've ever worked with, are community-based coaches that work in these environments because I call them super coaches because they can work anywhere, whether it be grassroots, professional, in disability football, whatever football you want to call it, they can work in it because they've had the experience in different communities. Now, I'm a grassroots coach, Matt. What advice could you give me as a grassroots coach who only trains on a grass pitch throughout the year that I can try to get those silky players like Jaden Sanchos, and, you know, those Tammy Abrahams and players like that, what advice could you give me? I haven't got the environment to do it, but could you give me a top tip of how I might be able to implement some things to improve and get some creative players?
Matthew:
The first thing that comes to my mind is get them into games. Small-sided games are the best thing I would say because in cage football, there is no arrival activity, there is no practice design. it's already designed and then you get them into it and they're going straight into games. Understand, they're going straight into games, small-sided games or sometimes even more than that, but it's really skill-based. As you know, in the documentary as you said, nutmegs, if you're being nutmegged and you're consistently being nutmegged that to players that is almost like a point-to-point system. So I think anything that can sort of replicate the actual match situation is a win. I think just simplify it because that's what gets these creative players.
Danny:
Do you have any advice for any coaches who might start thinking about utilizing cage football? Like, what should they expect?
Matthew:
This is a big one to do because it's cage football, the surfaces aren't the greatest, they're not really looked after, so you might have one goal that's well aligned and you have another goal that's broken, that's what we currently have. So one goal is really well put together and then you've got another goal that's slightly wonky but, you know, you've just got to work with it, you work with what you have. As long as you've got a surface to play on, it works.
Jamie:
It's fascinating listening to your story and thanks for sharing your advice, it's much appreciated. While you're here, do you have any coaching challenges or questions that you would like to put to Danny?
Matthew:
One of the first things that I wanted to ask Danny, which model in the four corners should coaches be focusing on to help transition into a more development, academy setup?
Danny:
It's a really good question, Matt, and I think the four corners should be for the particular player, not the team. So some players will need it more in a technical corner, some players will need it more in a social corner, but that's easier said than done if you've got 13, 14 players and you need to cater for all of them. So a top tip that I always use is that I like working on that right hand side, which is that psychological and social first, so I like working on that, and the technical corner in the physical corner will take care of that football side of things. You know, it would probably be a little bit longer in terms of some players realizing what they have to do and the demands of the game, but if I can help them out and say the psychological corner in their confidence, whether it be at school, whether it's being part of the team, whether it's just being on the ball and staying on the ball, I think I've got a good chance of helping them in that side of the corner of the technical side and then in the social side, if I can help them out of their communication maybe or their teamwork and their social skills with one another, again, that might help them out on their technical and the physical side. So it's just working maybe a little bit more on that right hand side and supporting them as a human being before a football player, and then the other, the left hand side should take care of itself because it's just playing the game. So I'll flip it back to you and the great work that you do and all the community leaders and also all the community coaches do is that when you do get put into the environment and you've only got two footballs and you haven't got any bibs and you've just got a little movement that you can play on, which is a realism up and down the country, the stuff that you do really well and I've learned off for the last 15, 20 years is how do I get that kid that's probably disengaged from school, that's probably maybe engaged in crime or going the wrong way, how do I get him on an event every Friday night and keep him there now? For me, that's more of a positive than anything else that comes with it. The football will take care of itself and that's where I really rate the work that people doing up and down the country in helping these young boys and young girls develop as a human being, by using the tool of football.
Matthew:
Yeah, I agree with you. I've got another one. As you just mentioned the four corners, because one of the challenges that we face, and to be honest, I've always seen this even when I was young playing in cage football, how can coaches like myself get more girls involved in cage football?
Danny:
It's a really, really good question, Matt. Because you know how passionate I am about women's football at the moment, having three girls myself. So I don't think it's just cage football, I think it's just football up and down the country, how we can support the female game better as male allies, as well. And it's great that you've asked this question. So what I would say is, if you go into the FA website, there are FA mentors that are working in the women and girls' game that work up and down the country that Will be able to give us support and advice on how to recruit more players. There's also the FA Wildcats. So you get funding for opening Wildcat centres and the Wildcats centres are absolutely brilliant. You know, I've started one off in Essex. I started off with three or four girls now get over 30 girls that come each week and the branding is excellent. It really appeals to the female game. It's a bit like cage football in that you just turn up and play and you do these fun games, but there's a football involved and at the end of the session sometimes you come away from it thinking, "Did I just do a football session there?" But it's been painted in a different way. Going into the local schools and getting them young is a real, I'd say would be really big top tip and try and recruiting those female coaches, getting those mums on board because I know in your community sessions that you've got, you've got those mums on the sidelines and they might say to you, "But I've never played football before." So what? That doesn't mean that you're not going to be a good coach. So trying to use those contacts in and around the community will be great role models. As you know, if you can see it, you can be it. And I know where you are, there are some great role models and up and down the country, there are some great models. So the tip to the coach is to recruit players, speak to your local county FA, Think about getting an FA mentor that's working in the female game, think about the Wildcat sessions where you do get initial funding to go and pay for facilities or pay for kit and whatnot. And you get people in to come and support you, including the county FA and the national FA, as well. And trying to recruit from the ages of 4, 5, 6, those girls players and giving them their opportunities to play in that female environment and enjoy it. And, do you know what, Matt? What a great advert at the moment is the female game in the women's national team. You know, what a great way to use them as an advocate and if we can get some street cage girls playing football like the male game, imagine what they could do for the female national team as well and all the academies up and down the country. So hopefully that's probably giving you a bit of advice how you might be able to recruit and get some more players.
Matthew:
No, thank you. I think that was, yeah, that was good. That's a good tool to use and appreciate.
Jamie:
Well, thank you very much for your time today, Matthew. It's been it's been brilliant to listen to you and get all your advice. Honestly, it's been fascinating and we hope that you're also happy with Danny and his advice, as well.
Matthew:
I am, thank you very much. Thank you and I think what you guys are doing is great and Danny just said, you know, having this type of podcast really does help to sort of highlight what is going on in the grassroots set up and the cage football setup and, you know, there are coaches like myself all over where I'm from that are doing similar things to what I'm doing and sometimes, you know, they too have a lot of knowledge that they want to share, you understand? And I think this platform helps those type of coaches like myself to share and also receive the knowledge, So thank you.
Jamie:
Oh, thank you very much for the feedback, Matthew. It's really nice of you to say. But to be honest, having coaches like yourself on the show is what makes the podcast what it is; Sharing the stories and being dedicated to learning. So thank you very much and keep up the good work. We're coming up to the end of the episode now which means it's swift session time. This is where we challenge our guests come up with a session idea that relates to the theme of the episode.
Louise:
Today we're looking for a session on a surface of your choice. You just need to make sure that it's fun, engaging and can be quick for coaches to set up. It can involve any number of activities but you'll only have 30 seconds to explain your ideas. Are you up for the challenge?
Danny:
Yeah, just give it a go. Let's do this.
Louise:
Okay, let me just set the timer up.. Okay, that's 30 seconds on the clock. Time starts. now.
Danny:
So we've got a game called the five goal challenge. So two teams, be it even, uneven, how you want to do it, it's up to you. Two goals, you mark a pitch out. So the challenge is, team, say yellow, give me five goals that you can go and score so you might say inside of the foot, outside of foot, folly. Team blue, give me five goals and all that happens is they will play a game and they have to try and score the five goals that they've chosen with it. If they tick that, those five goals, they're the winner. So the first one to get the first five goals are the winner. That's 33 seconds.
Jamie:
Well we'll take that.
Louise:
I didn't want to interrupt you mid-flow. But yeah, I think that was pretty much there. Is there anything else that you wanted to add in for that that you missed out?
Danny:
Play on any surface that you want. It's very informal and it brings out the creativity side for the players.
Louise:
So before we finish the show, do you have any last key messages for coaches to take away? Keep on doing what you're doing. You're valuable for the grassroots game. Without the grassroots coaches we haven't got a game. If you do need any tips, you know, we've got the FA Boot Room which has got some great resources. Talk to one another within your environments. If you're not fortunate enough to be in a club environment or other coaches in and around you, feel free to contact your county FA and think about getting a mentor. And the last top tip that will give you is, just keep on smiling and enjoying what you're doing because you're doing an absolutely valuable job for the grassroots game in football in general.
Jamie:
That was great, Danny. Thank you very much for joining us on Coachcast and providing us with an insight into different playing surfaces.
Danny:
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Jamie:
Right, that's all we have time for today. But if you want to find out more about what we've discussed in this episode, head over to thebootroom.thefa.com and check out Danny's article: Top Tips, Adding Variety to your Coaching Sessions. You can also visit our YouTube channel, England Football Learning to watch our interviews with Sol Campbell and Wayne Rooney.
Louise:
To keep in touch with all of our content, make sure you hit that subscribe button on YouTube and follow us on Twitter where our handle is @EnglandLearning. And if you want to chat about today's episode or you just want to jump into a coaching conversation, you can do so on the FA community. We'll be back soon with another episode of Coachcast. So keep an eye on our social media channels and wherever you get your podcasts from. From all of us at England Football Learning, thanks for listening.